Keep or Repeal 377A Petition?

[cutiebutie]

Good for you, mayamomi

Thks, cutie...

Aw shucks!

I think it is a shame that we are now so PC that we can't say a mother/father family is the norm.
We should stop being selfish and so strongly 'modern' at all costs - possibly think of the children ahead of being liberal.

[sundaymorningstaple]

I say ye be full of it!

Seriously, one must first distinguish between religious definitions of marrige and civil definitions.

I don't think that is a necessity at all. The fact that they may be willing to commit to a marriage and all that it entails (as you have listed) is immaterial as far as I'm concerned.

One thing I will address however is your comments re:

a) As you say, homosexuality is born not bred. So how exactly would being raised by two gays affect the child's sexual preferences? Note that the vast majority of US heterosexual men have had at least one homosexual experience.

Brainwashing by nothing more than the constant visuals of the same thing over and over until a young person starts to believe that maybe something is wrong with themselves as they don't feel the same feelings that the Daddy & Daddy feel? Then kids spend half their lives in analysis later trying to undo the harm done? Nah. Can't agree.

[mayamomi]

You mean Mommy & Mommy?

or daddy and daddy...

I guess you are figuring the children of homosexual parents are more likely to be gay themselves (unlike the smoking analogy)?

u're right, thats what i think... like i said, because homosexuality is abnormal and smoking is not... even though smoking is bad. Hence, if i had children i'd rather they be smokers than homosexuals...

I have never told my children that I am a heterosexual, so I am 'normal' and they should follow suit. Good parents come in many shapes and sizes and sexual preferences and teach by example more then they could ever teach by lecturing.

like u said, there're some things they learn without telling...

research have shown (don't ask me from where, i read it before but can't remember where... ) that children usually follow into the parents' footsteps, be it lifestyle, occupation, types of friends, food preferences etc...

anyway, to each his/her own...

[Superglide]

Hence, if i had children i'd rather they be smokers than homosexuals...

What about you'd be happy when they are happy, no matter what their choices are in life.

Gay is just a different choice for a partner, there is nothing abnormal about it.

Would you think two gay partners would not feel the same love for a child as two hetereosexuals?

What makes people think being gay means not being able to bring up children in the first place?

You know what the norm is in bringing up a child?

Love, no more, no less.

[road.not.taken]

u're right, thats what i think... like i said, because homosexuality is abnormal and smoking is not... even though smoking is bad. Hence, if i had children i'd rather they be smokers than homosexuals...

Double

I just can't find the words.

[mayamomi]

Hence, if i had children i'd rather they be smokers than homosexuals...

What about you'd be happy when they are happy, no matter what their choices are in life.

i know... thats why i said i'd RATHER they be smokers than homosexuals (i mean if i had a choice.... ), i didn't say i would object vehemently though, because as u said, we should be happy as long as they are... but enshalah it will not happen to my children...

lide"]
Gay is just a different choice for a partner, there is nothing abnormal about it.

i feel that people who thinks its not abnormal are in denial...

Would you think two gay partners would not feel the same love for a child as two hetereosexuals?

What makes people think being gay means not being able to bring up children in the first place?.

thats not the point ....

You know what the norm is in bringing up a child?

Love, no more, no less.

sad to say, sometimes love is not everything, sigh... there are just too many other factors to consider... however, i'm not saying its impossible, it really depends on the individuals... hence, like i said in my 1st post, i have reservations... not strongly against but i'm not all for it either... sigh again...

life is just too complicated sometimes...

[Superglide]

Life is as complicated as one makes it!

You know, it's easy for me, as in The Netherlands, my homecountry, gay couples are just as much part of life as heteros, with equal rights, being able to get married, adopt kids etc etc.

I wouldnot even give it a thought, that gays may have no rights or less rights.

[Wind In My Hair]

Let's try to put things in perspective. If the child's good were the highest prerogative, then divorce should be outlawed since it's the number one reason most children (even when they're grown) go into therapy.

I'm curious whether there is any evidence whatsoever that children brought up by homosexual couples are dysfunctional? If not then we're making theoretical assumptions here, and it would be interesting to see the results of actual studies.

As for homosexuality not being the norm... I used to think so but now wonder. It seems to have existed in all civilisations to a large degree.

[lefthanded]

Interesting topic. . . First of all, as regard to the subject matter, I'm of the view that Section 377A of the Penal Code should be repealed. . Whatever happens behind closed doors are literally "none of anyone's business". Haro, privacy. . .

People are of the view that children brought up in a homosexual environment tend to go towards that direction due to the influences? Have we overlook the fact that many of these homosexuals are actually brought up in perfectly normal heterosexual families? of course there are instances where broken family relationships, bad childhood, abusive parents all play a part.

(Maybe I shouldn't be sharing this, but what the heck?) Having said all the above, to further make my stand, I am not afraid to admit that I was once a dyke, all through my hormones-raging teens years! And I came from a perfectly normal family with a pair of loving parents! Throughout all those years, I didn't see anything wrong with my preferred sexuality/lifestyle and whilst mom didn't condone it she didn't disapprove. (Well, she always thought that it would just be a passing phase)

I have walked down the streets getting disapproving/quizzical stares from passer-bys while clothed in a t-shirt bearing the words "Mom, I'm a lesbian". But honestly, who cares? I didn't and i'm sure many homos out there don't too. At the end of the day, it all boils down to each individual's mindset isn't it?

[ksl]

After reading some of these threads, i'm totally whacked on some of the responses!

Homosexuality is normal, I don't think so, it is in my opinion, that there is a link, between the imbalance of hormones, and I do believe that statistical evidence, would substantiate the truth.

However the deviants are unfortunately in all walks of life, if the abnormal behaviour is noticed at a young age, hormone therapy maybe sucessful.....

My first encounter in Bugis back in the 70's was with this extremely attractive deviant who explained to me, that he thought he was normal, until he was raped, it was first then, that he realised he enjoyed it,

I'm dead against it myself, I feel its a threat to, what used to be thought of as a normal society....and i strongly believe, that many of them and i do know quite a few, that have come out of the closet, have admitted, they had been sexually abused when young...

I sympathise with many, simply because there is no way back, society is changing to open their arms to deviants, I find it quite worrying for my own kids, after seeing someone elses child grow up with anxiety and abnormal behaviour after being sexually abused at the age of 6, he is now 23 years old, and admits that he is gay.... He cannot be anything else because of his behaviour being effected at a very young age, by what is called pervert behaviour.

Before our liberal superglide flames me, I would like to say, I have nothing against homosexuality, providing they act normal towards me, because I try very hard to be normal.....in a society one expects to be normal, only to be shocked into reality, that we are surrounded by deviants in every country...just waiting to pounce on innocent victims.

I wouldn't be surprised at all, if paedophilia, isn't a direct result of sexual abuse by homosexual activity and to think the world is even considering laws to let them marry and have adopted children, this is a very grave threat to any normal child in my opinion.

Although many of us are very aware of religion and scandal, especially within, the Catholic religion, there is no doubt in my mind, that it is to late, many the closets are now open in the higher ranks, in legal, religious and government instituitions.



My other point is how can it be normal if people have been keeping it all a secret, for most of their lives...that isn't normal behaviour.

This UK TV personality surely isn't normal, even though he came out of the closet,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Barrymore

The little red dot, Singapore, is also a haven for perverts, and abnormal behaviour and why, because people feel safe and they leave their kids alone in the shopping malls, while they do their shopping, it's a ticking time bomb for something to happen......OK we can discuss what is normal until the cows come home......and I'm all for a excepting strange deviant behaviour exsists, but not at the expense of my morals, and it is a moral issue....

Okay be bisexual and open the doors, but to claim equal rights, and insinuating, that we that are normal, the majority should fall in line!

It's an act, one of choice that is most definite not normal, and never will be...embrace it yes, with sympathy and understanding by all means.

lefthanded says: hormones-raging teens years

So maybe if you had your hormones balanced, it may never have happend, of course we are not blaming you for your hormone raging years, but you have to admit, and you have, that it was hormone raging years, so how can it be normal.... my point is if you live with something for many years, it does appear to be normal, when it isn't, but you enjoyed it all the same! and I'm happy for you! I think there is far too much at stake, because a few feel, that their hormones where raging at the time, plus it can be quite a turn on.

I guess we all have our hidden perversions, its just finding someone that enjoys them, because then it is not a perversion right!

[Strong Eagle]

Brainwashing by nothing more than the constant visuals of the same thing over and over until a young person starts to believe that maybe something is wrong with themselves as they don't feel the same feelings that the Daddy & Daddy feel? Then kids spend half their lives in analysis later trying to undo the harm done? Nah. Can't agree.

Why would a set of parents, who have already been labeled as "queer" and have put up with societies discriminations ever want to "brainwash" their child(ren) to be gay?

[Superglide]

ksl,

Implying homosexuality is the result of being a victim of sexual abuse is probably the stupidest thing I have heard of homofobics like yourself.

In fact I would be more worried for your children with such a father, then worry about a child being brought up by two gay parents.

[sundaymorningstaple]

SE,

You missed the point.

The brainwashing isn't a conscious thing at all on the part of daddy & daddy (or mommy & mommy if the bent is in that direction). I don't think they would deliberately try to raise a child in their image (although it's funny you would say this - it's almost an admission of "it's wrong" but I know this is not what you meant)

It's just like the brainwashing that takes place subtley in schools around the world. (that one of the reasons for school uniforms as the dress code eliminates those haves from influencing the have nots. It's the constant repetition of the daily visuals that often form mindsets in our young. As someone else also pointed out, children "are" impressionable at a young age and often they get the wrong impressions from their environment. It's just like my growing up in a segregated environment in the 50's & '60s. It took a lot of work and effort on my part to unlearn the unconscious ingraining of segregation that the school (all white) and peers imprinted in my subconscious.

[mayamomi]

that children brought up by homosexual couples are dysfunctional?

not dysfunctional... neither are homosexuals... they are normal human beings with an abnormal sexuality (although i believe its not just about sexual desires) ... and their children, although not necessary would end up like them, there is a high tendency towards it..

some argue that many of these homosexuals grew up in a normal family... but how many? as compared to heterosexuals who grew up normal families?? without looking at statistics, i think the answer is pretty obvious... however, i do agree that its just a very biased view that their sexual pref would follow that of the parents... likewise, we cannot sure if they will not...

at the same time, did we also consider about the stigma that the children will face? in school, in the society etc.. we can argue forever and say that they can learn or un-learn the norms, but how many people, let alone children, are really strong enough to face the reality which more often than not, is very harsh... there was this kid who was laughed at in school just because his mother was so fat, he went home to shout at his mother... what about a gay couple? how would the child react? if they adopt from an orphanage, these kids could have already came from a broken family or may have lived with a normal family, now they'd live with the gay couple... i still think it would affect the child/ren directly of indirectly in some ways... although can't say for sure how... moreover, i think its difficult enough to explain the birds & bees, now this? hmm...

funny how someone mentioned paedophiles, that was exactly what i was thinking about last night... so is that also a norm?? along with necrophiliacs and people with other fetishes?

[jockney]

'Normal'....is a setting on a washing machine