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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 07 Dec 2007 9:11 am

They are priced generally competitively with PCs of the same specs.


Parka,

That statement is a real joke. It's obvious that you are deluded or working for apple to believe that.

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Postby Parka » Fri, 07 Dec 2007 11:05 am

Interesting. I actually had to go to dell.com.sg(cost-led pricing) to take a look.

Indeed the PCs are cheaper. I configured one at $1584 while th cheapest Macbook is $1822 (educational discount can offset another 7%).

In fact, if the Macbook can't install OS X, it's just worth as much as the cheapest PC. The only premium I see comes from OSX, in this case $238 difference.

Another analogy I normally use is to compare the Mac and PC to the taxi and bus. Sure they can take you to the same destination and the taxi cost more. But which one takes the shorter time?

Time savings is the selling point here. However if the buyer is a bargain hunter, the only recommendation I give will be to go for the cheapest computer.

--

The Macbooks are still priced quite alright in my opinion. But the Macbook Pro (MBP) in Singapore is really seriously ridiculously overpriced. Just recently, I had a friend who bought a similar specs computer at around $2400. That's like $788 cheaper than the MBP!!!

Another friend of mine bought a desktop of quad core processor at around $2600. That's like $1000 cheaper than my own desktop, the Mac Pro (and I had to get the cheaper refurbished version).

So what's the difference? Same hardware, insanely different pricing. The difference is in OSX. If not, no one in the right mind would buy a Mac for it's physically beautiful computers. But even beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I surely won't buy it without OSX.

So unless you know what you want. You probably won't buy these two.

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Postby ukdesigner » Fri, 07 Dec 2007 3:38 pm

The Macbooks are still priced quite alright in my opinion. But the Macbook Pro (MBP) in Singapore is really seriously ridiculously overpriced. Just recently, I had a friend who bought a similar specs computer at around $2400. That's like $788 cheaper than the MBP!!!

Another friend of mine bought a desktop of quad core processor at around $2600. That's like $1000 cheaper than my own desktop, the Mac Pro (and I had to get the cheaper refurbished version).

So what's the difference? Same hardware, insanely different pricing. The difference is in OSX. If not, no one in the right mind would buy a Mac for it's physically beautiful computers. But even beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I surely won't buy it without OSX.

So unless you know what you want. You probably won't buy these two.


Actually they are very cheap. A macbook Pro in the UK costs about S$6000 so believe me when I say its cheaper.

And when you say same architecture you are completely wrong. They are massively different. See the specs and you will understand. The Mac pros are quad core and the macbook pros are duo core 2's. The Mac pros can take about 16GB or is it more! of ram alone (can't remember specifically), and have expansion ports etc etc. The list goes on.

The Mac pro is a business machine and designed for people who do high end graphics / video editing etc etc. trust me I know... that's what I do. The only comparable pc items are Sun microsystems and they run into tens of thousands of $$'s.

But we're getting off track here.

Deciding between a mac and a pc comes down to several things.
1. Price
2. Usability
3. Software
4. Existing hardware compatibility

In most cases, I believe, the mac is worth the extra money. By the time you factor in virus software, spyware software, firewall software etc etc the prices for similar spec'd machines are nearly identical.

So ultimately it comes down to what you want. The OSX software is solid, reliable and well tested. It's architecture has been around for a long time. Windows Vista, from what I've heard, is unreliable, requires huge amounts of memory and it seems that alot of people hate it. I haven't tried it so can't comment personally. I use Windows XP SP2 on my mac for certain things and it's stable and reliable, but then again has been around quite a while now, so I wont be changing anytime soon. Yes I need to run windows aswell.

So when choosing a laptop / pc etc etc sit down and right a list of requirements then go and play with both machines. Ultimately you decide what you like and what you don't. I've converted several friends to macs and none of them will ever go back to a pc again. They like the interface, ease of use, widgets (copied by windows in vista) to name a few.

Just my tuppence or should that be cents worth!! :lol:
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 07 Dec 2007 4:05 pm

Another analogy I normally use is to compare the Mac and PC to the taxi and bus. Sure they can take you to the same destination and the taxi cost more. But which one takes the shorter time?


Try getting a taxi when it raining or rush hour. The buses have bus lanes. Quite often the bus is faster. :P

As far as Vista goes, I would agree, I won't think of it until VISTA SP2 arrives. XP Pros SP2 is pretty damned stable and its rare that I can hang it up to the point where I have to do a hard restart. Antivirus Software? No need to buy as AVG does a damn good job and it's free. Add to that Open Office, Firefox & Thunderbird. :wink: Dearth of Software, none. As I said, spec for spec a mac is more expensive and you are only paying for the styling (like a good restuarant, you cannot eat the ambiance - hawker centre a lot cheaper and just as good). Widgets? Get Yahoo Widgets. Also free. Styling? Eye candy? Fair enough if that's what you want...... No argument there but not worth the price differential to me.

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Postby Parka » Fri, 07 Dec 2007 5:41 pm

ukdesigner wrote:
Actually they are very cheap. A macbook Pro in the UK costs about S$6000 so believe me when I say its cheaper.

And when you say same architecture you are completely wrong. They are massively different. See the specs and you will understand. The Mac pros are quad core and the macbook pros are duo core 2's. The Mac pros can take about 16GB or is it more! of ram alone (can't remember specifically), and have expansion ports etc etc.

...



Not really S$6000. That's too much. I had to check the apple store website to actually confirm. But still the base model is about S$3800, very expensive!

For the second paragraph, I'm actually trying to compare the laptop to laptop and desktop to desktop. Guess I wasn't that clear.

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Postby ukdesigner » Fri, 07 Dec 2007 7:18 pm

No argument there but not worth the price differential to me.


I agree its down to the individuals needs ultimately. I have spent 8 years on macs and love them but then again I need them really for my work. I have had PC's and to be really honest end up getting annoyed with them purely because I prefer the way the macs OS runs in comparison to windows.

Personal preference. We'd all moan if there wasn't a choice so it's all good to have competition in the marketplace and then let people decide what they want.

Not really S$6000. That's too much. I had to check the apple store website to actually confirm. But still the base model is about S$3800, very expensive!


I have just checked the UK applestore and a macbook pro starts from £1300 so yes you're right about the S$3800. It was my mistake. What I meant to say was that the top end macbook pro (the professional one I mean) is £1959 which translates to just under S$6000. Based on the singapore applestore price of S$5195. That's a huge difference in price. Naturally the UK has a higher tax bracket which will reflect some of the difference but the costs here for computers and software are vastly cheaper than the UK. That's what I meant to say. These top end machines are designed for business users and are subjected to constant heavy use. Whilst naturally I'd love apple to drop their prices I feel in the end I would probably end up with an inferior product and in my business I cannot afford to have my machine in and out of the shop. Yes, they do go wrong. Yes they do break, but ultimately I am paying a premium for a quality branded product that to be honest I NEED. Apple know that and are capitalising on it. You would do so too if you were in their position.


For the second paragraph, I'm actually trying to compare the laptop to laptop and desktop to desktop


I understand what you're saying but a mac pro is exactly that... a professional machine so you can only really compare it like for like. If you deal in high-end graphics which the mac pros are designed for then you need to compare against a similar pc machine. Mac Pros don't come with monitors so you'd have to add that in. Most are run with 2 or even 4 monitors, some even 30" ones, so as I said, this is a top end machine and shouldn't be compared against a standard Dell machine for example.

The iMac is more the consumer model and that should be compared to the more mainstream pc's like Dell and Lenovo etc etc.

In fact, if the Macbook can't install OS X, it's just worth as much as the cheapest PC. The only premium I see comes from OSX, in this case $238 difference.


Macbooks can only install OSX. 1 operating system to rule them all. It's only when you get into servers do you find that there is a different version, naturally designed for a specific task. So when you compared the computers and said about the OS you were incorrect. There is also only mac OSX available these days. They can ONLY run OSX. Gone are the days of system 7, 8 & 9. They can't be run on the new machines only the older ones.


I still mantain that in the end it depends on what you want to do. I believe the premium paid for a mac is worth it. Others disagree and off course they are entitled to their opinion. In the end you must decide for yourself what you are prepared to pay. Some people prefer Sony Vaio's, others Dell. They all must sell and some are sold on brands, whilst others are sold on value. Everything has it's place in the market and the consumer in the end will decide which model suits their needs best.

Me... I'd go mac everytime!! :lol: :lol:
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Postby durain » Fri, 07 Dec 2007 7:32 pm

people, you are scaring the original poster off!

just chill and no more debate about mac or PC is better or vice versa because both are good. it all depends what the user need or want it for.


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Postby doctorpc » Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:50 pm

There's a chinese saying that says white cat, black cat, brown cat are all good cats as long as they catch the mouse as well.

So note the one that catches your eye and scour the net how good/bad it is at "catching the mouse".

8-)

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Postby ksl » Mon, 17 Dec 2007 12:59 am

durain wrote:people, you are scaring the original poster off!

just chill and no more debate about mac or PC is better or vice versa because both are good. it all depends what the user need or want it for.


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now a lenovo X61 and hp xw6400 windows XP user



OP's new computer is out of date by now :) First post in October :roll: Although the controversy over PC and laptop is quite simple....Laptop doesn't have a look in....Because of limited flexibility on upgrading....

When it comes to graphic speed, you need the Risc architecture which AMD use....Risc Computers are British, and used to sell their own Computers back in the early 80's of what I recall....graphic designers need that kind of processing, that Intel didn't want to deliver, I wouldn't say couldn't, Intel looks at the bigger picture and cost....

Anyway all sun microsystems are Risc processors,,and I believe even intel use the RISC architecture, as well as the CISC.....The Mac Book I believe is all Risc architecture..

PC's..you can of course put the most expensive components on the market, into the desktop, and it will knock you back alot of money 3000$ wouldn't cut it, to have the best of everything...You only pay for what you get....and in most cases...its always too much for the novice to handle.

What's the point of a Royals Royce, when you only need a mini! Mind you I have made that mistake, with my Nokia 95 :lol:

But that said one couldn't be a graphic designer without a good Mac Book a couple of years ago..although the race is still on for computation speed, the only way is RISC..although the companies behind the scenes are many of which we hear very little about!

In fact there was a time when I liked Via, until Intel, squeezed their nuts, and reduced them to withering heights, although I do prefer AMD because they have adopted RISC processing power, the last i heard...But don't listen to me, because I'm out of touch, meaning it's been longer than 3 months....in reality more than 10 years, since I was building computers...

http://www.wacklepedia.com/r/ri/risc.html

One really needs to be involved to have a chance to discuss, whats in and even Intels xx 86 family of processors are CISC but a likeness to risc has been adopted!
Last edited by ksl on Mon, 17 Dec 2007 2:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby ksl » Mon, 17 Dec 2007 1:20 am

doctorpc wrote:There's a chinese saying that says white cat, black cat, brown cat are all good cats as long as they catch the mouse as well.

So note the one that catches your eye and scour the net how good/bad it is at "catching the mouse".

8-)

Ha! The mouse being the consumer right! :lol: Good salesman technique for you! This is what your neighbour purchased only yesterday, "well haven't you anything better says the consumer" :lol: Salesman: Well we only have this, but it's double the price, mind you, see who you can impress with it and check out the reviews! (All reviews done by employees):lol: :wink:

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Postby durain » Mon, 17 Dec 2007 9:57 pm

mac was risc but now are all cisc (they use bog standard x86 intel cpu). the risc days were when they were using powerpc cpu. the british risc pioneer was ARM. another risc player that do cpu is transmeta. but of course the biggest player is sun microsystem.

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Postby fettomat » Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:18 am

Ohh, a pro/conta Apple Discussion:)

If you compare prices, you should compare with the same processor, maybe the same thickness of the case and don't forget thinking about additional software that eighter comes with a mac or is much cheaper to buy for it (Office Software for example, videocut...). But comparing the cheapest Apple and the cheapest Dell???

And you should think about the time that needs to be spend to keep the System running smoothly;)

And if a Mac is still more expensive, think about the appearance and the fact that you will be able to run the newest system and software in the next five years without any trouble. The new Leopard works on older maschines fine, can you say that about Vista?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 18 Dec 2007 1:16 pm

What's cheaper than OpenOffice.org? Firefox? Thunderbird? Yahoo Widgets?
Gimp?

Style? Does it add to the function of a computer? Nah! So why pay for it? Is it easy to upgrade? definitely NOT. So why blow that much money for what is now an un-upgradable Apple running Intel processors? Doesn't make much sense to me? Course if you happen to be one of those who wear their clothes with the labels sewn on the outside for other to gawk at....... :roll:

:P

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Postby Plavt » Tue, 18 Dec 2007 4:36 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Parka,

Now you are trying to be a comedian as well as a link spammer is it?


I have a macbook as well as an imac - both work better than most other machines I have had including your beloved Dells. :P :tongue:

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Postby Plavt » Tue, 18 Dec 2007 4:42 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Is it easy to upgrade? definitely NOT. So why blow that much money for what is now an un-upgradable Apple running Intel processors? Doesn't make much sense to me?
:P


I like many others no longer bother upgrading, and an apple running intel processors is ok as some people run both Mac OS and Windows for whatever reasaon (can't do that on a Dell :P ). In addition the hardware is a good deal more reliable. One can argue they are more expensive but cheap machines give more trouble than enough!


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