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Protest against the Myanmar Govt

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MobyDog
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Postby MobyDog » Sun, 30 Sep 2007 12:01 am

Plavt wrote:Mobydog,
Don't know if you have noticed or not; the country is already in turmoil which may result in civil war anyway. You asked who will fill the void? Easy answer Aung Sang Suu Ky and her party. Under a democracy she would have assumed office which was the wish of the people.
Not really at the stage yet.

BTW, what we are seeing are just the city folks and monks/Nuns. But if, you want to ignore the actual situation there, fine, let Suu Kyi assume the office.. wish them all the best.

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Postby Plavt » Sun, 30 Sep 2007 12:48 am

MobyDog wrote: But if, you want to ignore the actual situation there,


The actual situaltion is; the milarty has been ruling the country for the last 45 years suppressing the rights of people, denying the democratic process of electiing a government, creating hunger and poverty (like our 'friends' in North Korea).

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 30 Sep 2007 12:50 am

I am not sure which way would be best. The problem is that the military is corrupt. If there was a way to ensure that the strong man and his closest cronies could be gotten rid of but keep the military in charge I think that this would be the best solution.

Historically speaking I would have to agree the mobydog is correct in his assumption that the different factions would most likely revert to separate warring states (or maybe be limited to skirmishes) not much different that what the Shite, Sunni & Kurds are playing out in Iraq. Only difference there are 6 to 8 of them. Suu Kyii and her pro-democracy movement are primarily of only one or two groups. While her ideals are laudable, whether the northern states would give their support is a different kettle of fish.

I have 23 educated Burmese working for me. They are also a microcosm of Myanmar as well, with the exception that all are degree holders so have educations (albeit the level commensurate with the country). I have the sprog of Military Officers and Civilians and I have Northern Chinese stock and well as southern Thai/Burmese and so forth. The one thing that I notice is there is a definite separation between the northern states and the southern states. This eventually could end up in a Korea/Vietnam situation with a north-south division. An overthrow could be the worst thing that could happen. The best is the removal of the current strongman and his cronies. (The word is that there seems to be divisions within the military anyway due to the strongman's lavish wedding for his daughter).

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Postby Plavt » Sun, 30 Sep 2007 1:05 am

I see your point sms but wherever there is a military dictatorship it rarely benefits the people. Although as your rightly say it does maintain law and order as was the case with Saddam Hussein despite his tyranny. However, even if you remove the current strongman, it is just as likely somebody no better or even worse will assume the position. Ethnic factions are always a problem and I don't think anybody has come up with a suitable answer wherever they exist.

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Postby MobyDog » Sun, 30 Sep 2007 2:24 am

Plavt wrote:I see your point sms but wherever there is a military dictatorship it rarely benefits the people. Although as your rightly say it does maintain law and order as was the case with Saddam Hussein despite his tyranny. However, even if you remove the current strongman, it is just as likely somebody no better or even worse will assume the position. Ethnic factions are always a problem and I don't think anybody has come up with a suitable answer wherever they exist.
I don't understand you.. are you saying regime change the junta for the sake of it, and hope for the best ? Many people will die because of it ? and decades of violence are higher than chances of peaceful transfer. In any case, what make you think Suu Kyi and her party will succeed and effective. Arroyo started off clean too.. you know. The U nu democratic dictatorship, which the Junta replaces was ineffective too. Will Suu Kyi get the military support ? There is a high chance, she will likely be assassinated like her father.

I agree with SMS, if possible, he's suggestion is ideal for the Myanmar in their current state. Not perfect, nothing is perfect, but still ethnic groups will vote for their own... here lies the problem - election. If one party gets majority vote because of their bigger ethnic make-up .. the other minor ethnic groups will revolt or call foul. Which warlord do you think would want to give up their state and power ? Or simply Suu Kyi will only rule the South nothing more. Hey.. I just descript current Iraq.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 30 Sep 2007 6:03 pm

And Korea and Vietnam a while back where I also played a bit part years ago. Interestingly enough, the backer during the VN war was also China who support the North where there were a lot of cross-boarder migrations, Same thing in Burma with the Shan. The Shan are ethnically Chinese and are the second largest ethnic group of which the Thai are the largest and comprise around 65% of the population.

Nobody is saying that the military is the ideal solution. It is probably the only solution that would actually work in the medium term. We already see what happens in the short term in Iraq don't we. Democracy will only work if all want it and not just a couple of the smaller groups or a small group of idealists. I still don't see that happening. There isn't the support.

If democracy was going to work it would have spurred the population to riot more than they did in '88. It would be more like the downfall of Marcos when ALL the people wanted it. Then and only then can you start a juggernaut that will steamroller the powers that be as well as the military that supports them (a lot of the military will drop their uniforms givene the slightest chance if they see a big enough ground swell against the powers that be.

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Postby huggybear » Mon, 01 Oct 2007 1:21 pm


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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 01 Oct 2007 1:59 pm

Huggy, That's the worst kept secret in Singapore. :wink:

Old news but very interesting to see it in print all in one place. Bet there will be some Aus-Sing backlash over it though. Especially this comment:
Monitoring dissidents is an area where Singapore has expertise. After almost five decades in power, the Lee family-controlled People's Action Party ranks behind only the communists of China, Cuba and North Korea in leadership longevity.

I was here during the '88 slaughter as well. So this is something similar to history updated or made current. Nothing new (well a couple of Military Names have changed but that's all.

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Postby cutiebutie » Mon, 01 Oct 2007 3:52 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Huggy, That's the worst kept secret in Singapore. :wink:

Old news but very interesting to see it in print all in one place. Bet there will be some Aus-Sing backlash over it though. Especially this comment:
Monitoring dissidents is an area where Singapore has expertise. After almost five decades in power, the Lee family-controlled People's Action Party ranks behind only the communists of China, Cuba and North Korea in leadership longevity.

I was here during the '88 slaughter as well. So this is something similar to history updated or made current. Nothing new (well a couple of Military Names have changed but that's all.


Oh no, they forgot Goh

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Postby huggybear » Mon, 01 Oct 2007 4:29 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Huggy, That's the worst kept secret in Singapore. :wink:


i guess the locals just have a more pragmatic view.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 01 Oct 2007 8:23 pm

cutiebutie wrote:Oh no, they forgot Goh


No they didn't.......

You've heard of the Holy Trinity right? The Father, the Son and the Holy Goh!.

:P

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Postby DimWit Kid » Mon, 01 Oct 2007 11:20 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:The one thing that I notice is there is a definite separation between the northern states and the southern states. This eventually could end up in a Korea/Vietnam situation with a north-south division. An overthrow could be the worst thing that could happen. The best is the removal of the current strongman and his cronies. (The word is that there seems to be divisions within the military anyway due to the strongman's lavish wedding for his daughter).


sms, I remembered some times ago I had an argument with you - I argued along similar line as above, about my country (I used something like benevolent dictatorship is what is needed) and got into long argument with you... :)

Hey, I completely agree with you and Moby - somebody strong should be in charge of the country, but not those who corrupts absolutely and left the people hungry on the street. Education, like you have mentioned, is needed before a nation could be a nation. You give so called democracy to a bunch of hungry people used to living in dictatorship, they will embrace it by killing each other. And if somebody suggest me to imagine how it felt to live under a dictatorship, I know how that is personally, and I would say bring back the strong man rather than having to live with partisan democracy.

Having said that I must say that I do feel sad about what is happening in Burma - it's just democracy yardstick is also not the exact answer.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 01 Oct 2007 11:41 pm

DWK,

Yeah, I believe I remember that one. :wink:

I don't compare the two. However bad your homeland was, it's nothing compared to Myanmar.

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Postby BearHug » Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:27 pm

rhino wrote:If you are on Facebook you can join the "Support the Monks' protest in Burma" group. 108,657 members and counting.



Thanks Rhino! :D
TheTimeIsAlwaysRightToDoWhatIsRight. Image

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Postby rhino » Tue, 02 Oct 2007 6:49 pm

BearHug wrote:
rhino wrote:If you are on Facebook you can join the "Support the Monks' protest in Burma" group. 108,657 members and counting.



Thanks Rhino! :D


Now 265,000 members fyi...


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