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Free The South Korean Hostages Campaign

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mayamomi
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Postby mayamomi » Wed, 08 Aug 2007 1:00 pm

one843 wrote:I must come to the defense of the Singaporeans.

I will be the first to admit that I do complain about alot of things here in Singapore.
However I must also give credit where credit is due.

I have full faith that any Singaporean will come to anyones aid if anything bad would happen to them. Such as being mugged, beat up, fainting, anything that might happen to someone that requires the normal citizens assistance.

This peace of mind is very relieving when it comes to my children. Coming from the States you could not let your children out of your sight in fears of abduction or molestation.

If ever I was overcome by the heat as was to faint I am sure that people would not step over me and steal my wallet. Well someone might steal my wallet.

Well done Singapore.
And happy birth day.

Sorry to go off thread.



how long have u been in singapore ?? i don mean to put all the singaporeans down, i' singaporean myself but sometimes (i mean most of the times... ) there'd be tons of people standing around in a situation whereby someone needs help (eg. if someone fainted or got into an accident... - and believe me, i've been there myself...) but everyone simply stood around and whispered to one another, saying what should be done so on and so forth... of cos we have to give credit to those who did something for the people (shamelessly, myself, frens and family included...)

they'd not steal ur wallet for sure, but i don't know if it was from fear or integrity... besides, there're tons of people watching, remember??

anyway, its just my views maybe bcz i've just seen more of the bad side of singaporeans... however, of cos this applies to any other countries or tribes or community etc etc ...
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 08 Aug 2007 6:35 pm

one843 wrote:I must come to the defense of the Singaporeans.

I will be the first to admit that I do complain about alot of things here in Singapore.
However I must also give credit where credit is due.

I have full faith that any Singaporean will come to anyones aid if anything bad would happen to them. Such as being mugged, beat up, fainting, anything that might happen to someone that requires the normal citizens assistance.

This peace of mind is very relieving when it comes to my children. Coming from the States you could not let your children out of your sight in fears of abduction or molestation.

If ever I was overcome by the heat as was to faint I am sure that people would not step over me and steal my wallet. Well someone might steal my wallet.

Well done Singapore.
And happy birth day.

Sorry to go off thread.


It's too long to go into here on this thread, but suffice it to say I have to disagree from first-hand experience right in my HDB estate in full view of of several dozens of pairs of eyes staring out of their flat windows watching the full episode of a man trying to save another man who had torched himself in the middle of a playground at the foot of our flat.

Here they will contribute money but their time? No way. Unless it is kids doing it for ECA points in school (in other words only because there is something in it for them - in this case points to help their grade averages to get into University).

Sorry but got to disagree on this one.

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Re: Free The South Korean Hostages Campaign

Postby bigfilsing » Wed, 08 Aug 2007 11:41 pm

solarv wrote:~Free The South Korean Hostages Campaign~

Please sign the petition and forward to your friends. Each of us could make a difference in their lives!

http://global-petition.blogspot.com


can't believe you think a thread on a really obscure forum will make one bit of difference. other than your conscience that is :D

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Postby bigfilsing » Wed, 08 Aug 2007 11:46 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
one843 wrote:I must come to the defense of the Singaporeans.

I will be the first to admit that I do complain about alot of things here in Singapore.
However I must also give credit where credit is due.

I have full faith that any Singaporean will come to anyones aid if anything bad would happen to them. Such as being mugged, beat up, fainting, anything that might happen to someone that requires the normal citizens assistance.

This peace of mind is very relieving when it comes to my children. Coming from the States you could not let your children out of your sight in fears of abduction or molestation.

If ever I was overcome by the heat as was to faint I am sure that people would not step over me and steal my wallet. Well someone might steal my wallet.

Well done Singapore.
And happy birth day.

Sorry to go off thread.


It's too long to go into here on this thread, but suffice it to say I have to disagree from first-hand experience right in my HDB estate in full view of of several dozens of pairs of eyes staring out of their flat windows watching the full episode of a man trying to save another man who had torched himself in the middle of a playground at the foot of our flat.

Here they will contribute money but their time? No way. Unless it is kids doing it for ECA points in school (in other words only because there is something in it for them - in this case points to help their grade averages to get into University).

Sorry but got to disagree on this one.


be honest SMS. youre not here for the cutural activity ( in fact it's sad to watch the sheep like parade ( the only time Singaporens and dolly have one thing in common) ) for the country. Your here for YOU. like the rest of us ..Low taxes, low crime rate, affordable way of life.

I dare you to take the moral high ground :D

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Postby one843 » Fri, 10 Aug 2007 7:57 am

Maya and SMS,

You both have sited 2 incidents that yes maybe there were several on lookers doing nothing, but in each case(from what I understand) there was someone that was helping the person in need.

The comment about the affordable way of life. I wish I could find that. It is rather expensive for me to have the same way of life here compared to the US.
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 10 Aug 2007 10:47 am

bigfilsing wrote:I dare you to take the moral high ground :D


Wish I could take any ground at all. It sure isn't for the money - I went off expat status more'n 15 years ago. I work for a small local family owned SME. After a quarter of a century here it also has nothing to do with culture either. I been here long enough to see all I need to know. Moral high ground? Well, yes in a matter of speaking only. (I'm waiting for my son to do his NS) Then, depending on whether or not my MiL is still around I should be pardoned in 3 to 5. (With bars on my windows and bars on my doors and 6 inch concrete walls I really meant "pardon". :P

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Postby luxiana » Fri, 10 Aug 2007 10:47 am

unless the petition is signed by God himself on the Kuran I am sorry to say that they will not listen anything from people like you and I.

they believe they are right and that we are wrong.
they have different sets of values and our law doesnt apply to them...


it seems that it will take a bit of time before these people "disappear"...

congrats to the priest who managed to send 20+ teenagers in one of the most dangerous places on earth...
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Postby one843 » Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:10 am

Those S Koreans of course went to a very dangerous place where the risks are very big.

But they did to help those average citizens that need help.

What they did thousands of other people do all across the earth. To say congrates to the priest is kinda sarcastic.

I say congrats to the hostages for having the bravery to go into a violent, radical muslim area of the worls to help the people who did nothing to deserve what they got and these hostages doing all this in the name of there God.

I know that I would not have the balls to go there.
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Postby luxiana » Fri, 10 Aug 2007 2:45 pm

It's the job of NGOs and of the army to help local populations when there is a risk. Help has to be planned and involves to think about the social, cultural and economical aspect of helping the populations.

you just don't enroll 20 teenagers to help in a country where you are not welcome especially when:
- your skin color is like a magnet for "terrorists" or "patriots" who don't mind a little blood lust on TV at prime time,
- You are Christian and you are joining the "fun" in a country where a war between religions has just started
- When you are not experienced enough, you don't know the risk it implies to go there.

These young people could have helped in different countries that are less dangerous. I am sure that even in South Korea people need help.

Thanks to the priest, politicians have another problem to deal with with in a highly unstable country.

It reminds me of friends of mine joining the humanitarian bandwagon when I was a student: "I'm going to bring civilization to African countries and if you don't think I am right you are a fascist" could have been the footnote of the project... (I insist on the "Fascist" bit). People were dying in winter for lack of shelter in my town, others had problems getting their kids to school because they didnt know how to read, some Older people didnt have visit for years and would die sad and alone in an hospice... basically: you can find needy people right next to you and make the difference.

for knowing some people who want to "help" the world + some who work in professional NOGs: those who do not work with a NGO have no thought about the culture, no thought about the social disorder that "helping" these countries would create. Most of the time they act without the support of the army/officials authorities.

Note that these patriots/terrorists etc have done nothing to workers of the Red Crescent who are muslims...


As for having the balls to go there: life is not always a competition: Do you have the balls to jump by the windows and die? well, honestly speaking: I don't admire people who do that and still everyday people commit suicide...
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Postby one843 » Fri, 10 Aug 2007 3:20 pm

Lux,
You sound like some hardcore democrat friends of mine. :roll: :roll: :D :D
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Postby mayamomi » Fri, 10 Aug 2007 3:40 pm

one843 wrote:Maya and SMS,

You both have sited 2 incidents that yes maybe there were several on lookers doing nothing, but in each case(from what I understand) there was someone that was helping the person in need.

The comment about the affordable way of life. I wish I could find that. It is rather expensive for me to have the same way of life here compared to the US.



some incidents yes there was someone helping but a few incidents, my frens and i had to push past the crowd to see whats going on and offer our help with everyone else looking ... i can understand that sometimes pple are afraid to help, bcz they might not know how but all they need to do is at least OFFER to help or ASK if the other party needs help... but to look and do nothing when u know u might be able to help???

but here, we're talking differently when it comes to the south koreans going to help there... we know we'd not be able to help them... its about knowing ur limits... bcz like someone mentioned about the Qur'an, if its not by God, they'd not listen...

anyway, as i mentioned before, there're all sorts of pple everywhere... not to be against Singaporeans really (i'm one too!!) but i'm just saying that there's so much more we can do physically to help, and so much closer to home too.. not just signing petitions... (although i admire the bravado of the south koreans and they do not deserve what they get now for wat they had was only good intentions to help, sometimes its a fine line between blind courage and stupidity... )

which brings the topic back to home again... sometimes singaporeans are weird i feel, its so difficult to get money out of their pockets to help the needy close to home but if it was a foreigner who came seeking for medical help, we're so eager to show that we're ever-willing ... my point is, lets try to do more for the people around us before we attempt to exceed our limits...
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 10 Aug 2007 5:16 pm

mayamomi wrote:which brings the topic back to home again... sometimes singaporeans are weird i feel, its so difficult to get money out of their pockets to help the needy close to home but if it was a foreigner who came seeking for medical help, we're so eager to show that we're ever-willing ... my point is, lets try to do more for the people around us before we attempt to exceed our limits...


The old saying is "Charity begins at home" Problem is there is not a lot of face to be gained publicly that way. Just personal satisfaction.
Last edited by sundaymorningstaple on Fri, 10 Aug 2007 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby luxiana » Fri, 10 Aug 2007 5:19 pm

Hi,

hummmmmm as I am not American I am sorry to say that I don't fit into the republican/democrat scheme ;) . I would just say that I try to consider the culture of the people who are "receiving" help before making a move especially when it involves sending troops in the country...

after all: we consider the "free world" is helping them, they consider it's an invasion.

One of the problems is not that people want to do good, it's more on how they want to do it.
by going to such places they are a liability as:
- they are untrained
- they require constant protection
- they have no idea of the cultural shock that will result
- in case the milk turns sour it requires resources that would better be allocated to something else than to help them

etcetc

and the worst: as WE don't want THEM to butcher teenagers WE have to negotiate with them and maybe trade with them. that gives them credibility.

if you want to help: give funds to a charity/ngo that is already "on site" and that has a good track record (eg: out of a $, how much is actually spent to help people)

it's sad to say that for now, the best people to help are the soldiers: they have all the skills required to build infrastructures, they have the supply chain and they are trained to response in case of an attack.

the other sad thing: you can't expect the army to solve all the problems


It amazing how the cultural dimension is completely forgotten when it comes to "helping others"...

It reminds me of the US Soldiers going to Bagdad and who were expecting to be welcomed like when they freed Paris of the Nazis during WWII: women smiling and kissing them while they were distributing chewing gums and coca cola bottles... they were proven wrong.

with the S. Korean: "we are going to help, people will be happy to see us"

apparently they were also proven wrong... they need "help", they need a certain type of "help" they just don't need "your help".

their are so many ways of helping than just putting one's life at risk like the koreans did...

All that to say again: no point in signing a petition...
things are already on the move: Hamid Karzai is working on it, the US army is working on it, every body is already working on it.

if you want things to stop: a Marshall Plan like in the 40's in Europe + trade with this country so they can build up an economy that doesnt have to rely on guerilla leaders and drug production. make these people part of the system, let them make money and be a commercial partner.

By doing so in the 50s France and Germany have broken a tradition of more than 200 years of reciprocal hatred... but we had the same culture and started at about the same level: countries to rebuild.
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Postby mayamomi » Fri, 10 Aug 2007 5:36 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
mayamomi wrote:which brings the topic back to home again... sometimes singaporeans are weird i feel, its so difficult to get money out of their pockets to help the needy close to home but if it was a foreigner who came seeking for medical help, we're so eager to show that we're ever-willing ... my point is, lets try to do more for the people around us before we attempt to exceed our limits...


The old saying is "Charity begins at home" Problem is there is not a lot of face to be gained publicly that way. Just personal satisfaction.



yes "charity begins at home... but u forgot.. ."it shouldn't end there"..
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Postby Wind In My Hair » Sun, 12 Aug 2007 5:42 pm

I agree that an online petition is a waste of cyberspace, and I agree that the US government should not get involved, and I agree that if the captors get their way, more people will be taken hostage in future.

Still, we have all done foolish things in life and been thankful to be bailed out. And one day our children may do something equally foolish and we will be praying our hearts out that they will be bailed out. So perhaps a little compassion is in order instead of saying it's their own fault and they deserve it. We can't do much to help, but can at least wish them the best.


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