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Banking, Bill Payments: US to Singapore

Discuss the different banking options, rates, offers and perks.
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Banking, Bill Payments: US to Singapore

Post by Researcher » Thu, 05 Jul 2007 11:58 am

Hi, I'm probably moving to Singapore at the end of this July to work there (still waiting for my employment pass), and I was wondering, if I have bills to pay here in the US (e.g. student loan, credit card bill) that I will have to continue to pay while in Singapore (probably for the next 2 years+), what is the best way to do this?

1. I thought about opening Paypal accounts (I have one here in the US), and transferring money into my US bank account from a Singapore bank, into which my salary will be deposited. Then I can pay the vendors from my US bank account, online. This will cause a slight processing delay though.

2. Is there a bank in Singapore that will allow me to make direct online payments to vendors in the US?

Also, do US credit cards (Visa) work in Singapore? Or do I have to get a whole new card?

Thanks for any advice!

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Post by LT » Thu, 05 Jul 2007 12:08 pm

Hi Researcher,

In regards to your bill payment in US, I think a better way is to leave some funds in your US account for the payment. When the fund runs low in a few months, you can then TT some funds from Singapore back to the State and this should be able to last you for a few more months. This will help to save some costs too, because everytime you do a TT of funds to the State, there will be some charges. (0.125% + Agent fees + cable charge of $20)

For credit card, it will be more practical if you re-apply for the credit card in Singapore. Because if you use your US credit card, the monthly expenses will all be converted back to USD for your payment. All these will incur some FX loss too.

Cheers....
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Post by ututu » Thu, 05 Jul 2007 6:56 pm

LT wrote:Hi Researcher,

In regards to your bill payment in US, I think a better way is to leave some funds in your US account for the payment. When the fund runs low in a few months, you can then TT some funds from Singapore back to the State and this should be able to last you for a few more months. This will help to save some costs too, because everytime you do a TT of funds to the State, there will be some charges. (0.125% + Agent fees + cable charge of $20)

For credit card, it will be more practical if you re-apply for the credit card in Singapore. Because if you use your US credit card, the monthly expenses will all be converted back to USD for your payment. All these will incur some FX loss too.

Cheers....
There is a better/cheaper way to transfer funds, using paypal. Establish two paypal accounts, one in Singapore (using SG bank account), one in US(using US bank account). Then paypal money between accounts, first there are no TT fees, nor any other stupid bank charges and exchange rate again is better than bank could offer. Using paypal you can then transfer money out of paypal into your bank account. It takes a bit longer, 4-5 days, but on a plus side it's cost effective for smallish amounts and I really like to stick it to the banks with their moronic charges for god knows what.
Last edited by ututu on Thu, 05 Jul 2007 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by huggybear » Thu, 05 Jul 2007 7:42 pm

If you can make sure to leave one credit card with a US address (i mail one to my parents) so you can still use ITUNES and download (legally) tv shows, movies, music.

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Post by ututu » Thu, 05 Jul 2007 8:32 pm

huggybear wrote:If you can make sure to leave one credit card with a US address (i mail one to my parents) so you can still use ITUNES and download (legally) tv shows, movies, music.
You should have no problems changing billing/mailing address to Singapore. Almost all (except one) of my US cards/bank/CU accounts setup to SG. Works fine for me.

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Post by jpatokal » Thu, 05 Jul 2007 9:16 pm

As it happens, I was looking into this very issue yesterday. There are at least four ways of getting money from Singapore to the US: telegraphic transfer, international draft, PayPal and Moneybookers. Sample charges at DBS:

Telegraphic transfer = 0.125% (min S$10, max S$100) + S$20 flat fee + any charges at receiving end (can be charged back to you)
A few days anywhere in the world

International draft (cheque) = 0.125% (min S$10, max S$100) + S$4 if they post it for you + receiver pays their own charges
Can take up to a month to clear (!)

In DBS's case, receiving charges for both transfers and cheques are 0.125%, but you'll need to check with your bank. Exchange is done at DBS's TT sell rate for both, which is pretty decent (eg. 1.6% spread for CAD). In practice, the "0.125% min S$10" thing means you just pay a flat $10 for any amount under ~S$10000.

Sample numbers, straight fees only:
$1000 = $30 by transfer, $14 by cheque
$10000 = $32.50 by transfer, $16.50 by cheque

Sample numbers, assuming you lose 0.8% on the exchange:
$1000 = $38 by transfer, $22 by cheque
$10000 = $112.50 by transfer, $96.50 by cheque

Both PayPal and Moneybookers make no sense for larger amounts (>$1000). Moneybookers takes min 1.9% for anything to/from Singapore, not including FX. PayPal is even worse at 2.4-3.4% + $0.50 SGD + 2.5% extra FX spread on top of interbank sell rate (so figure 3-4%) for incoming (to SG) transfers; but, oddly, it appears to be free for outgoing ones (aside from that FX gouging).
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Post by Researcher » Thu, 05 Jul 2007 10:50 pm

LT wrote:In regards to your bill payment in US, I think a better way is to leave some funds in your US account for the payment. When the fund runs low in a few months, you can then TT some funds from Singapore back to the State and this should be able to last you for a few more months. This will help to save some costs too, because everytime you do a TT of funds to the State, there will be some charges. (0.125% + Agent fees + cable charge of $20)
Gawd, I'm one poor bastard. This seems to be the best plan out of all the suggestions, but I can't afford to leave behind a large balance because I'll need almost all my money for my move to Singapore. I'm almost living paycheck to paycheck here in the US, after all - that first paycheck in Singapore can't come soon enough, after I arrive.

All the other options seem like nightmares, considering I have to maintain a decent monthly balance in my US bank account to pay off my student loan. That means I will have to get used to these weird options with all their fees, and pick the cheapest one. Maybe PayPal twice a month, of under $1000 increments?

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Post by Incassable » Fri, 06 Jul 2007 5:46 am

Researcher,

I will add my two cents regarding U.S. credit card usage in Singapore (or any country outside the U.S. for that matter). If you use either a U.S. issued Visa and Mastercard outside of the U.S., they will tack an additional 3% onto the purchase and call it a 'foreign purchase charge.'

So, make the assumption you do buy something in Singapore using a credit card, you will end up paying 3% of the cost to Visa/Mastercard. Additionally, as everyone else has mentioned, regardless of which method you use, you will have to pay fees to move money from Singapore to the U.S. Based on a transfer of around $5000, my experience is that the total fees to transfer this money will be ~3%.

So you will end up paying an additional 3% on top of the 3% foreign purchase charge to move your money that you made in Singapore to the U.S. so you can pay off your credit card company for the purchase.

In total, you would end up paying an additionl fee of approximately 6% of the item's value to simply use your U.S. based credit card to pay for something in Singapore (or any foreign country). On a purchase of $100, you will pay $103 to the U.S. credit card company for buying that item. Basing it on transferring about $5000 back the U.S., you will again have to pay an additional 3% to move the money back to the U.S. which means your actual cost for a $100 item is around ~$106-all the while you could have paid for it using the money you made in Singapore and the cost would have been a straight $100.

Moral; try to avoid using the U.S. based credit card in Singapore (and outside the U.S. in general) if at all possible. Use the money that you make in Singapore to pay for your expenses and only shift money back to the U.S. that you want to save/invest or that you need to shift in order to pay for U.S. bills.

As LT mentioned, to minimize the impact of fixed fees, you want to tranfer as large amount as possible rather than several smaller transfers.

Kindof as a side note; if your income is over $82,400 per year, there are also some potential tax advantages to transferring only what you have to back to any U.S. based financial institution.

Regarding how you actually transfer your money; I can't speak in terms specifically in regards to doing it from Singapore, but I have done it from a lot of other countries and in general, the TT is much more economical when moving anything more than a few hundred dollars.

My experience is that the other methods are filled with more headaches, surprises and in the end seem to be less efficient than TT. Just for an example; one time it took about 4 months to get an international check issued from HSBC in Mexico to post on my Bank of America account in the U.S. AND after four months, BOA found a reason to charge me $400 to deposit the check which was only for about $7000!!! I did argue the charge and got most of it refunded, but still, when you are 12 hours in front of the U.S., you want to avoid putting yourself in a position where you are contesting ANYTHING over the phone.

Good luck,
cd

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Post by huggybear » Fri, 06 Jul 2007 7:35 am

ututu wrote:
huggybear wrote:If you can make sure to leave one credit card with a US address (i mail one to my parents) so you can still use ITUNES and download (legally) tv shows, movies, music.
You should have no problems changing billing/mailing address to Singapore. Almost all (except one) of my US cards/bank/CU accounts setup to SG. Works fine for me.
Correct but you cannot use Itunes with a singapore credit card.

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 06 Jul 2007 9:24 am

Neither can you use a US credit card with a Singapore billing address from what I have been given to understand (I don't use iTunes).

Another word of caution before changing your billing address on US cards to Singapore (I've only two US cards and they have been that way for 25 years), if you tend to shop online, I would suggest that you acquire a Singapore VISA Card with a local address to handle this chore (What I eventually did). This will also negate the "foreign currency charge that US cards charge. For some reason most (not all) online facilities seem to have a problem with a US card with a foreign address and tend to not allow them (software glitches).
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Post by huggybear » Fri, 06 Jul 2007 11:02 am

correct. sorry.
best thing to do i think is to have one US credit card mailed to US address.
one US bank account (US bank account can have singapore address for statements)

two sing credit cards (amex gold singapore air -- earn some miles + regular SGD visa)
and one atm card. all sent to sing address.

thx 4 info on the choices of wires. that was very helpful.

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Post by ututu » Fri, 06 Jul 2007 11:53 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Neither can you use a US credit card with a Singapore billing address from what I have been given to understand (I don't use iTunes).

Another word of caution before changing your billing address on US cards to Singapore (I've only two US cards and they have been that way for 25 years), if you tend to shop online, I would suggest that you acquire a Singapore VISA Card with a local address to handle this chore (What I eventually did). This will also negate the "foreign currency charge that US cards charge. For some reason most (not all) online facilities seem to have a problem with a US card with a foreign address and tend to not allow them (software glitches).
Yep, ended up getting 3 SG based cards. BTW, Credit Union cards don't have that "foreign currency charge", MasterCard/Visa will levy 1% though and it will be either on top of exchange rate (rate + 1%) or as a separate 1% charge. Depends on the arrangement between issuer and MasterCard/Visa.

As far us US cards not being accepted with foreign address shipping/billing, this is a anti-fraud measure. Higher risks for merchant/processing center.

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Post by ututu » Fri, 06 Jul 2007 12:03 pm

jpatokal wrote: Both PayPal and Moneybookers make no sense for larger amounts (>$1000). Moneybookers takes min 1.9% for anything to/from Singapore, not including FX. PayPal is even worse at 2.4-3.4% + $0.50 SGD + 2.5% extra FX spread on top of interbank sell rate (so figure 3-4%) for incoming (to SG) transfers; but, oddly, it appears to be free for outgoing ones (aside from that FX gouging).
I didn't know Paypal charges on US -> SG direction, I only sent money to US not the other way around.

One additional method worth looking into: Citi Global Transfer, one needs accounts both in Citi SG and Citi US, flat fee of 10SGD or 10USD depending on the direction. Spread on rates is about 1.7%. Good thing about CGT it's almost instantenous and can be done online anytime of day. Not sure if HSBC has the same perk may be worth asking. I don't know any other banks that service retail in SG and US.

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Post by jpatokal » Fri, 06 Jul 2007 11:18 pm

ututu wrote:I didn't know Paypal charges on US -> SG direction, I only sent money to US not the other way around.
Charges are based on direction, not country. For PayPal international transfers, sending is "free" (if you ignore getting screwed on FX) but the receiver pays. For Moneybookers, it's precisely the opposite.

Doing small PayPal transfers twice a month is nonsensical. Keep a local credit card in the US, use it to pay bills, and top up your account with a big TT every now and then.
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Post by Researcher » Sat, 07 Jul 2007 12:31 am

ututu wrote:
jpatokal wrote: One additional method worth looking into: Citi Global Transfer, one needs accounts both in Citi SG and Citi US, flat fee of 10SGD or 10USD depending on the direction. Spread on rates is about 1.7%. Good thing about CGT it's almost instantenous and can be done online anytime of day. Not sure if HSBC has the same perk may be worth asking. I don't know any other banks that service retail in SG and US.
That Citi solution sounds really interesting; I should go into a branch and talk to them about it. That sounds like a good way to avoid having any mistakes too, since it's instantaneous and can be done online anytime of the day (which means I can even do it from work).

Jpatokal's advice on keeping one credit card in the US also makes sense, especially if one needed a backup on top of the above Citi method (I think vendors often charge a fee if you pay a bill using a credit card, though - but still a good backup).

The key is the ability to do most things online.

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