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Superglide
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Postby Superglide » Tue, 19 Feb 2008 9:43 pm

So Gekko assmilates and fits in wonderful. In Singapore.

Yet he has no clue about the country and why he wants to become one of them, other then some shallow observations on its ambition and opportunity.

Oh, and I forgot the order aspect.

Weird, isn't it?

My guess, he is just a guy, fryustrated about the high taxation in Scandinavia / N-Europe.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Someone who believes he is paying all and getting nothing, the short sighted one.

As a matter of fact, he does fit in...
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road.not.taken
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Postby road.not.taken » Tue, 19 Feb 2008 10:02 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:GG,

I wouldn't worry too much about a few naysayers on here. I've been here probably longer than anybody on this board except for the Singaporean like WIMH and some others. We have had two children here, both are now young adults. While I am only a PR it is only because of a few things. One is the fact that I'm not a cityslicker. I'm an ole farmboy and I intend to die on my farm. While my own country has it's far share of warts and problem (US) I would not give up my citizenship. However, it it weren't for the space constraints here in Singapore and the religion problems in the neighbouring countries, I could have seen me giving up mine in order to stay in Asia.

There are quite a few "Caucasian" Singaporean now and more are added each year. A number are from Scandinavian countries as well. Most who have made the jump are well educated senior level personnel or were and have struck out on their own here. They have bought into the Country and want to grow with the country as well. The biggest naysayers are those who were here and left for whatever reasons, usually due to assimilation problems. Not all have problems with assimilation as you and I are both well aware of. Maybe the arrogant caucasian was a bit over the top but sadly I am inclined to agree with WIMH for the most part because I have heard the comment more times than I care to admit to. The average Singaporean, while not racist toward caucasians (just the opposite actually) do not respect the majority of them because of their attitudes.

As you have pointed out earlier, having already lived in Asia before it's not like you don't already have a taste of Asian life and lifestyles.

As I tell my kids all the time...."You make you own bed in this life and you have to sleep in it". If you make it lumpy & bumpy, it will always be uncomfortable. If you make it carefully life will be an adventure and enjoyable for the most part.

My verdict? Go for it.


SMS, you're not the living example of GG's dream to become Singaporean-- you are exactly what SG and I are talking about as what GG should do. Move here, figure out if he likes it, then go on to the next step. Gordon Gekko sounds more like Borat than Michael Douglas if you ask me.

When you moved here originally (when the earth's crust was still cooling) did you renounce your US citizenship? No, and now you have options.

WIMH, stop baiting the hook. It's boring. If you go back and read your quote you'll see it says that many expats do not fit in and then you give ONE reason for it, not 'many' reasons:

Wind In My Hair wrote:Yes, many expats do not fit in but that's because they have a "my way is best and the locals are neanderthals" mentality and walk around with their huge expat noses in the air.

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Tue, 19 Feb 2008 10:24 pm

road.not.taken wrote:WIMH, stop baiting the hook.

I left you alone for the sake of peace, and now you must search me out here, where everything has been peaceful till now, to jump on me and destroy the peace? The playground I left not large enough for you? Fine. Have this one too. :cry:

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Postby Plavt » Tue, 19 Feb 2008 10:26 pm

Superglide wrote:
My guess, he is just a guy, fryustrated about the high taxation in Scandinavia / N-Europe.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Someone who believes he is paying all and getting nothing, the short sighted one.


That would seem to be about the height of it; I often wonder about some of the expats in Singapore. I suspect a percentage of them are little more than tax-dodgers of a sort and possibly from privileged backgrounds who resent paying anything towards the welfare of their fellow countrymen/women.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:57 pm

road.not.taken wrote:
SMS, you're not the living example of GG's dream to become Singaporean-- you are exactly what SG and I are talking about as what GG should do. Move here, figure out if he likes it, then go on to the next step. Gordon Gekko sounds more like Borat than Michael Douglas if you ask me.

Never inferred that I was either did I? However, I could have done easily as I've assimilated rather well. I was even a part-time actor for 18 years with SBC~MediaCorp doing Mandarin serials.

First of all, it's pretty obvious that he would have to move here first on an EP and subsequently gain his PR and onto Citizenship. I would think that that would be sufficient time for him to figure it out don't you? You cannot apply for citizenship coming out of the starting blocks so why are you guys trying to think that way. I am sure he as done his homework as well already having already lived in Asia previously.


When you moved here originally (when the earth's crust was still cooling) did you renounce your US citizenship? No, and now you have options.

I knew when I came here I'd never stay. I'm not a city boy. I've just stayed a lot longer than I originally intended. Had they allowed me dual citizenship I may have considering I've been here a quarter of a century. But again, I was never disgruntled with my own country or region so wasn't particularly looking either.

WIMH, stop baiting the hook. It's boring. If you go back and read your quote you'll see it says that many expats do not fit in and then you give ONE reason for it, not 'many' reasons:

Why in the world would one have to give a lot of reasons, the one biggest reason is that most do not assimilate well. What need is there to give many reasons? Unless you were just trying to bait her yet again....
:?


Anyway, at the end of the day, it's GG's choice. He will have to live with the choices he makes. If his mind is made up, more power to him as at least he does have a definitive goal in mind.

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Postby road.not.taken » Wed, 20 Feb 2008 5:59 am

I guess the difference is that you give Gordon the benefit of the doubt and figure he won't do anything rash concerning his current citizenship; that he will follow a systematic approach when moving to Singapore, eventually gaining citizenship. I don't read his posts that way at all. He sounds so brash and naive all I can do is picture that scene in 'Leaving Las Vegas' when Nic Cage burns his passport and Social Security card.

Re: baiting. Why give any reasons at all when it is impossible to know the hearts and minds of others? Why use authoritarian language to describe what another's motivations are, or what they are feeling? We just can't know these things.

What a person says in passing, may not be the true feelings in their heart. There is a common phenomenon amongst expats here: when they get the 'call' and realize they have to move -- they talk themselves (and to anyone who will listen) into why the new posting is better and often, their 2nd string of friends drops out of the picture. Not consciously, but people come and go here and it's a self-preservation tactic. Children will pick fights with the person moving or vice-versa, not realizing why. It's easier to move if you've cut some tethers.

My point is that there is no way of knowing why someone 'fits in' or falls in love, or likes a movie, chooses boxers over briefs or whatever. 'Peace' would be easier if we avoided assumptions that deliberately hurt people.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:43 pm

road.not.taken wrote:Re: baiting. Why give any reasons at all when it is impossible to know the hearts and minds of others? Why use authoritarian language to describe what another's motivations are, or what they are feeling? We just can't know these things.

What a person says in passing, may not be the true feelings in their heart. There is a common phenomenon amongst expats here: when they get the 'call' and realize they have to move -- they talk themselves (and to anyone who will listen) into why the new posting is better and often, their 2nd string of friends drops out of the picture. Not consciously, but people come and go here and it's a self-preservation tactic. Children will pick fights with the person moving or vice-versa, not realizing why. It's easier to move if you've cut some tethers.

My point is that there is no way of knowing why someone 'fits in' or falls in love, or likes a movie, chooses boxers over briefs or whatever. 'Peace' would be easier if we avoided assumptions that deliberately hurt people.


No offense meant, but you post smacks of assumptions as well doesn't it? You are assuming that it is a common phenomenon. I've been an expat nigh on 30 years and I haven't found that to be true at all, so I guess your representative example is different than mine. So if that is true then you have to be assuming as well that it is 'common'.

Anyway, yes, I know that GG is an adult and as an adult I try to give him the benefit of the doubt as such. Just because it doesn't feel right to you or SG doesn't mean it doesn't feel right for him. He may have been weighing this for many years - you are assuming here as well that he is naive or hasn't done his homework yet you don't have a clue about the guy.

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Postby Superglide » Wed, 20 Feb 2008 4:01 pm

sms, the gekko hasn't lived in Singapore before.

But he claims he wants to become a Singaporean, paradise of order, ambition and opportunities.

Are we silly when giving him the advice to come here, live here for several years and then decide?

Please, gimme a break. :-|
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Postby road.not.taken » Wed, 20 Feb 2008 4:19 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
road.not.taken wrote:Re: baiting. Why give any reasons at all when it is impossible to know the hearts and minds of others? Why use authoritarian language to describe what another's motivations are, or what they are feeling? We just can't know these things.

What a person says in passing, may not be the true feelings in their heart. There is a common phenomenon amongst expats here: when they get the 'call' and realize they have to move -- they talk themselves (and to anyone who will listen) into why the new posting is better and often, their 2nd string of friends drops out of the picture. Not consciously, but people come and go here and it's a self-preservation tactic. Children will pick fights with the person moving or vice-versa, not realizing why. It's easier to move if you've cut some tethers.

My point is that there is no way of knowing why someone 'fits in' or falls in love, or likes a movie, chooses boxers over briefs or whatever. 'Peace' would be easier if we avoided assumptions that deliberately hurt people.


No offense meant, but you post smacks of assumptions as well doesn't it? You are assuming that it is a common phenomenon. I've been an expat nigh on 30 years and I haven't found that to be true at all, so I guess your representative example is different than mine. So if that is true then you have to be assuming as well that it is 'common'.

Anyway, yes, I know that GG is an adult and as an adult I try to give him the benefit of the doubt as such. Just because it doesn't feel right to you or SG doesn't mean it doesn't feel right for him. He may have been weighing this for many years - you are assuming here as well that he is naive or hasn't done his homework yet you don't have a clue about the guy.


SMS, of course all of our experiences are different. I was referring to what I have seen firsthand and what I have read about in the many books on Third Culture Kids. It is a phenomenon they all seem to reference, at least those I have read. It doesn't matter really, your point is taken and although you can be brusque, even grumpy at times, you leave your baited hook to your avatar where it belongs. I thank you for that. :)

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 20 Feb 2008 5:19 pm

Superglide wrote:sms, the gekko hasn't lived in Singapore before.

Please, gimme a break. :-|


I haven't lived in Indonesia or Malaysia before, but I know I don't want to live there. I have worked there however for many years but always flying back to Singapore where my home was. Do I have to live in Malaysia or Indonesia to know I don't want to live there? I also know I don't want to live in Cambodia or Laos either.

GG said he has lived in Asia, as I stated in my earlier post. One doesn't always have to live somewhere to get an opinion. And GG as also said he's been to Singapore a number of times as well.

So, may I repeat you last line?

Please, gimme a break :-|

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Postby Superglide » Thu, 21 Feb 2008 8:09 pm

Never mind sms, this is not worth the energy to further debate. :)
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Postby GordonGekko » Fri, 22 Feb 2008 6:10 am

Dear fellow Forummembers,

Never in a million years could I have imagined the response on my thread "A Caucasian Singaporean?" that took a jump here for some reason!
I thank you all for your thoughts and your input, but there is two contributors that stand out in the crowd - namely WIMH and SMS.
Of all the people here, you two have understood what I have tried to say.
My honest and heartfelt thanks to the both of you. :D

For the rest of you, I respect your viewpoints, but I would have respected them even more if you had met me with the same, as it is this embarassingly obvious LACK OF RESPECT ](*,) that have left me disappointed with the discussion level within the thread. I don't mind criticism or frankness, but this can be done without resorting to mudslinging.
Anyway, I hope for better discussions in the future. :)
You do what you are.

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Postby ksl » Fri, 22 Feb 2008 4:37 pm

you leave your baited hook to your avatar where it belongs. I thank you for that.


Hi SMS how many have you caught this week? :P :lol: I wish i could fish like you :wink:

There are quite a few snappers in Asian waters, and piranhas' too :) Although the thread wouldn't be entertaining without them!


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