Another National Service Question

PsychoJet2 · Post by **PsychoJet2** » Tue, 12 Jun 2007 3:47 am

This is a somewhat unique situation that I have not been able to find an answer to on the CMP website. I emigrated from Singapore to the US with my family at the age of 8 yrs 10 months in 1989. I returned briefly in 1994 at the age of 13 on a short family vacation. While on that short vacation in Singapore, my family obtained an IC for me. After returning from the vacation, I have not returned to Singapore since (though my parents did file for NS deferment when I approached 16 yrs of age). After I finished my high school education in the US, I decided not to return to Singapore for my National Service and instead continued my education by attending an University in the US. At that time, I was also nationalized as a US citizen with US passport and sought to renounce my Singapore citizenship, which was subsequently denied. I, thus, became a National Service Defaulter. In any case, I then attended graduate school after my undergraduate training and attained a PhD in Medical Neuropharmacology.

My question is, since I emigrated from Singapore at 8 yrs 10 months and thus did not enjoyed significant socio-economic benefits of citizenship, can I reapply to renounce my citizen, escape National Service Default status with no punitive punishments and still be allowed to visit families in Singapore?

National service-liable males who migrated from Singapore before age 11 and have not enjoyed significant socio-economic benefits of citizenship (e.g., applied for a Singapore identity card or studied in Singapore beyond the age of 11) are allowed to renounce their Singapore citizenship if they do not wish to fulfill their NS obligations. They will be required to register for national service with Central Manpower Base and apply for deferment from full-time NS until the age of 21, pending the renunciation of their Singapore citizenship. They can continue to make short social visits to Singapore and will not be required to serve NS if they renounced their citizenship at age 21.

Post by **jpatokal** » Tue, 12 Jun 2007 7:32 pm

PsychoJet2 wrote:My question is, since I emigrated from Singapore at 8 yrs 10 months and thus did not enjoyed significant socio-economic benefits of citizenship, can I reapply to renounce my citizen, escape National Service Default status with no punitive punishments and still be allowed to visit families in Singapore?

There's nothing to stop you from reapplying, but what has changed since you previously applied and were rejected? If the answer is "nothing", then you'll probably get rejected again, and it looks to me like the application for the IC card is why they're not letting you go. Can't hurt to try though... why did your folks apply for the IC anyway?

PsychoJet2 · Post by **PsychoJet2** » Tue, 12 Jun 2007 8:55 pm

they applied for an IC for me simply because they thought they had to

Post by **sundaymorningstaple** » Tue, 12 Jun 2007 9:31 pm

YOur answer is in the quote you so conveniently posted from their site. As you did apply for and receive an identity card, regardless of who did it, it would appear that they have you by the short hairs.

(e.g., applied for a Singapore identity card or studied in Singapore beyond the age of 11)

PsychoJet2 · Post by **PsychoJet2** » Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:04 pm

does returning to singapore on a short family vacation and getting the IC while on that vacation (after 5 yrs of living in the US) then immediately leaving and not returning since 1993 constitute "enjoyed significant socio-economic benefits of citizenship"? What were the socio-economic benefits of citizenship? The IC? It didn't exactly help me in any way at all in the US. Do I have grounds for a successful appeal?

Post by **sundaymorningstaple** » Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:22 pm

I would say the "Key" word in the quote is "or". As to grounds for a successful appeal. Who knows. In light of the piano players plight last year they might view it differently but as you appealed once and have absolutely nothing 'new' to add, if it works like the courts here, if you appeal and lose they often look at it as just being troublesome and up the punishment. I know this is not what you are hoping to hear, but I don't think any of us have a clue as to your chances. I know I don't but the quote seems pretty clear.

PsychoJet2 · Post by **PsychoJet2** » Thu, 14 Jun 2007 3:37 am

the thing is, i never actually appealed because i do not know the actual process. all i did back then (about 8 yrs ago) was just sent an email asking them what can i do to renounce my citizenship and they said that i couldn't without NS fulfillment. Hence I didn't submit any actual appeal paperworks detailing that I spent a grand total of 2 or 3 wks in Singapore since I moved to the US 18 years ago at age 8. by the way, what is the actual appeal process, where can i get the forms (just cant find it), etc.? thanks for all your help.

k1w1 · Post by **k1w1** » Thu, 14 Jun 2007 8:55 am

Psychojet, let me get this straight... You were born in Singapore, to Singaporean parents. You and your family moved to America and you got citizenship at age 18 or so. Your parents had applied for you to DEFER your NS requirement, so you could study, at age 16. You didn't try to renounce your Singaporean citizenship till you were 18-20ish, by which time you were really expected to be doing NS...

I know you didn't technically use the benefits of being a citizen, but the point is that you could have, as they were open to you. I don't think there is really a grey area. (Can you imgaine if they allowed this? Some people would use services/benefits more or less than others... real can of worms).

Sounds fairly cut and dry to me, I'm sorry to say. Bummer, but I bet that's the way they see it.

Post by **jpatokal** » Thu, 14 Jun 2007 6:30 pm

PsychoJet2 wrote:the thing is, i never actually appealed because i do not know the actual process. all i did back then (about 8 yrs ago) was just sent an email asking them what can i do to renounce my citizenship and they said that i couldn't without NS fulfillment. Hence I didn't submit any actual appeal paperworks detailing that I spent a grand total of 2 or 3 wks in Singapore since I moved to the US 18 years ago at age 8. by the way, what is the actual appeal process, where can i get the forms (just cant find it), etc.? thanks for all your help.

I'm increasingly confused here. What actually happened?

a) You sent a mail asking if you can renounce, and they said "no".
b) You applied formally to renounce citizenship, and they said "no".

If it's case A, you still have a chance, and you need to talk to your local Singapore embassy/consulate. Here's what the one in New York has to say:

http://www.mfa.gov.sg/newyork-consul/renuncitizen.html

PsychoJet2 · Post by **PsychoJet2** » Thu, 14 Jun 2007 8:55 pm

jpatokal wrote:
PsychoJet2 wrote:the thing is, i never actually appealed because i do not know the actual process. all i did back then (about 8 yrs ago) was just sent an email asking them what can i do to renounce my citizenship and they said that i couldn't without NS fulfillment. Hence I didn't submit any actual appeal paperworks detailing that I spent a grand total of 2 or 3 wks in Singapore since I moved to the US 18 years ago at age 8. by the way, what is the actual appeal process, where can i get the forms (just cant find it), etc.? thanks for all your help.
I'm increasingly confused here. What actually happened?

a) You sent a mail asking if you can renounce, and they said "no".
b) You applied formally to renounce citizenship, and they said "no".

If it's case A, you still have a chance, and you need to talk to your local Singapore embassy/consulate. Here's what the one in New York has to say:

http://www.mfa.gov.sg/newyork-consul/renuncitizen.html

The situation is A, except it was in the form of an email. Thanks for the info page. . . FINALLY . . . a more concrete source of info from teh Sg. Gov't. THANK YOU!!!!!!!

Post by **jpatokal** » Fri, 15 Jun 2007 9:50 pm

PsychoJet2 wrote:The situation is A, except it was in the form of an email. Thanks for the info page. . . FINALLY . . . a more concrete source of info from teh Sg. Gov't. THANK YOU!!!!!!!

Note that the link doesn't say a word about what the conditions are for your application to be accepted. I'd suggest having a nice chat with the consulate.

primitivo · Post by **primitivo** » Sat, 23 Feb 2008 8:27 am

PsychoJet2,

What is your situation now?

Thanks

Post by **sundaymorningstaple** » Sat, 23 Feb 2008 10:44 am

Probably not good and why he's never posted anymore.

durain · Post by **durain** » Sat, 23 Feb 2008 11:04 am

i think he renounce everything singapore.

Glofam · Post by **Glofam** » Fri, 04 Apr 2008 2:34 am

What is the current status of this situation. I have a similar situation. Pls help

I have 3 sons and have left Siunpore before they reached 7 yrs old and currently in the US. I have requested for a deferment for NS and they have rejected it today. What can I do?

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