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DISCRIMINATION? GRADUATE WITH NO EXPERIENCE, HOW EASY?

Discuss about getting a well paid job or career advancement. Ask about salaries, expat packages, CPF & taxes for expatriate.

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Asian_Geekette
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Postby Asian_Geekette » Wed, 06 Jun 2007 11:05 am

zltm089 wrote:marlow, i here to get ideas and advice on finding a job in singapore. i am not here to impress anyone of you people so that i can get a job in your companies, so i can write whatever way i want to. no need to get cheeky.


By writing clearly and adhering to the grammatical rules of the English language, you'd have other people understand your point. They're more likely to respond to your requests for ideas and advice if they don't find your writing to be...

Marlowe wrote:a pain in the arse to read.


Just something to think about...
Last edited by Asian_Geekette on Wed, 06 Jun 2007 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My business is not to remake myself, but make the absolute best out of what God made. -Robert Browning

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Postby Strong Eagle » Wed, 06 Jun 2007 11:21 am

zltm089 wrote:marlow, i here to get ideas and advice on finding a job in singapore. i am not here to impress anyone of you people so that i can get a job in your companies, so i can write whatever way i want to. no need to get cheeky.


Consider this:

a) There may be quite a number of people who can hire who read these boards. Your attitude and your sms'ese do little to convince them that you have anything worth offering.

b) The only way to consistently use grammatically correct English is to consistently used grammatically correct English. I will never step into sms'ese simply for that reason. You would benefit yourself by stopping with the junk and I would bet money you cannot create a grammatically correct report.

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Postby TG » Wed, 06 Jun 2007 12:45 pm

[quote="zltm089"]marlow, i here to get ideas and advice on finding a job in singapore. i am not here to impress anyone of you people so that i can get a job in your companies, so i can write whatever way i want to. no need to get cheeky.[/quote]

Have you any idea that your prospective employer might be reading this? You'd have a lot of convincing to do when they read your post. Imagine littering your emails @ wuk wif all the :???: wuds dat I :shock: cun read n dun fin it 8-) n not str8 2 d pt.

10 years ago, job seekers in Singapore had exactly that kind of attitude, only to be humbled by a weak economy in the ensuing years. Character counts a lot for a recent graduate.

And by the way, this is not to bust your ego, but rather a reality check - what criteria did you use to classify yours as the "Top" university? I'm just curious because when we say "Top university", we're talking about Cambridge, Oxford, Stanford, Harvard etc. Not meant to be demeaning, but just wonder where you get your sources of classification.

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Postby nkprimo » Wed, 06 Jun 2007 1:36 pm

Marlowe wrote:mate, one thing i'd recommend is that you practice "writing like an adult". i'm sure you & your friends all use shorthand you developed using sms, but i would never hire anyone who wrote emails in the style that you write your posts. i skipped about 90% of your message because it's a pain in the arse to read.



I have to agree with Marlowe zltm089 sorry. I had a hard time reading your posts as well. There might be people reading the posts in this forum who could actually help you but decide not to because your posts are well, er, written in a non-standard way. :)

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wow!

Postby zltm089 » Wed, 06 Jun 2007 2:24 pm

ok i think that i managed to get everyone hating the way i write now! lol but the reasons you provided me with, are sensible and justified, so I APOLOGIZE for the bad vocabulary and grammar. As a matter of fact, i can write reports! Eagle, i have spent 5 years writing reports, essays and a 20 000 words dissertation! thats why NOW i tend to move to the" sms-english" i've just become extremely lazy! anyways, i didn't realise that sticking to formal english was that important on this forum.

in reply to one of the posts, i have "assessed" my universities as being among the top in England by considering their research and teaching qualities, by reviewing national newspapers' assessments and local educational assessment reports. The university of Bath has been considered to be in the top 10 for research and teaching in England. With regards to Royal Holloway's school of management, it has consistently been among the top management schools in the UK according to the Times and the Guardian.

:oops: (you guys are mean for making me write properly!!! )

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Re: me again!

Postby ProvenPracticalFlexible » Wed, 06 Jun 2007 5:06 pm

zltm089 wrote: AND PLEASE, DON'T PUT ALL GRADUATES IN THE SAME BOAT! MOST U.S and British universities are the BEST IN TERMS OF RESEARCH AND TEACHING AND REPUTATION.
i am not saying that singapore's tertiary education is bad, but when compared to some british and u.s universities , they just can't match! thats a fact!

so graduates from reputable universities can't be compared with local graduates! UNIVERSITIES ARE ALL DIFFERENT and so is their graduates!


About education; no matter how fancy or top ranking school you go, it is you a company will hire, not the school. They won’t get university's top notch research facilities or genius professors for the company. It is just the student how happened to spend a little time in there, and students are all individuals, some more suitable for specific job than others. The reputation usually mostly impresses the other ex-students from the same school.

A little hint when you look and university rankings: there is life outside of UK including education. So if a British news paper ranks British educational institutions, it is obvious that you won’t see Singaporean or any other foreign Universities on the list. Now you are making conclusions that they are worse in education and research without having any facts.

So with a quick research from http://ed.sjtu.edu.cn/ranking.htm for academic rankings, I looked that NUS is in the world ranking in group 102-150 and Bath University in world rank 201-300 group, and Royal Holloway 301-400. Universities usually are good in some specific academic discipline, not one university is world top in all research areas.

I would not make so much noise which University you have your degrees. Someone recruiting in Singapore, possibly graduated from NUS probably would not appreciate if you tell them that your educational level is much higher than his.



zltm089 wrote:....i just need some practical advice now...

i have two options

1 come to singapore on the employment pass eligibility thingy, this will give me a 1 year visa where i can look for jobs in singapore.

2 i can start emailing cvs to companies with a covering letter saying that i am actually abroad and that i wana work in singapore.


From those two options number 1 has much better chances of success, but it is riskier. So do your risk management, how much you can afford to spend for job hunting. Are you ready for the worst case scenario, where you spend all you money and a year and still no job. Of course as you’re a smart fresh graduate, I’m sure you are also smart enough to get out of the box, and won't limit your choices to just 2.


I’m sure you also understand from the companies point of you the risks/costs of hiring fresh graduates and even more the risks of hiring cross country. This stuff must have been taught to you in business school, when even a non top100 mba like me knows it.

Anyway good luck for you reaching your goals whatever their are.

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yes!

Postby zltm089 » Thu, 07 Jun 2007 1:19 am

wow! thats was a "quality" post! thanks for your advice mate. much appreciated. yes will have to consider other options as well. i might consider canada, where the process time for the application takes 2 years but you only need 1 year of work experience. Cost of living seemed to be much cheaper as well.

i referred to my universities as "top class" because i just wanted to show off a little bit and in the UK they hold a rather good reputation (yes, have to admit i was narrowly focused)

cheers!

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Re: yes!

Postby Asian_Geekette » Thu, 07 Jun 2007 12:57 pm

zltm089 wrote: yes will have to consider other options as well. i might consider canada, where the process time for the application takes 2 years but you only need 1 year of work experience. Cost of living seemed to be much cheaper as well.


zltm089,
Just do your research about other countries first. Better yet, go and visit the country first before deciding to stay there. Before I got to visit Singapore, I had so many misconceptions about it but once I got to SG for the first time, I fell in love with the public mass transportation system. :D (I come from a place where I spend about 2 hours commuting to work--one way. Yet the distance is only 28 kilometers.) Then I set my mind into relocating to SG for work.

Someone gave me this link: www.notcanada.com. You can check it out. I'm not sure about the content of that website. Perhaps a Canadian member of this forum would like to give a comment about that site.
My business is not to remake myself, but make the absolute best out of what God made. -Robert Browning

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Postby zltm089 » Thu, 07 Jun 2007 3:35 pm

Hi Geekette! Thanks for your advice and the link. Yes, I am spending a long time researching about Canada, Australia and Singapore. I have been to Singapore before on holiday and I have cousins in Australia and Canada. I have had some feedback from them with regards to life in the big cities. I have checked the link about Canada, some sad stories about immigrants (whether true or not now thats a different story). But there are hundreds of complaints about not being able to find a decent job.

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Discrimination Upfront

Postby miss_jay » Fri, 08 Jun 2007 2:41 am

My boyfriend has been trying for a year to get a job here - he is Russian and apparently companies don't want to apply for a work Visa for him because it's "a hassle". We've always suspected this, based on what happens in the interviews, but we finally found out for sure when my brother tried to help him get a job in a well-known company that he knew was hiring.

My brother reported that the company was impressed with my boyfriend's resume, but said that they would prefer to hire someone local and less experienced so that they do not have to go through the hassle of applying for a work visa.

This was infuriating and frustrating...

Isn't there anything we can do?

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Postby zltm089 » Fri, 08 Jun 2007 3:19 am

thats true for england as well....companies don't want to apply for your work permit because its a HASSLE! i have seen many cases here in england, can't comment for Singapore though. i've learnt a lot from this forum, apparently networking is a good strategy and good grammatical english! lol

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sigh

Postby miss_jay » Fri, 08 Jun 2007 3:37 am

Well then, I guess soon I will be the expat, haha, cos we're going to look at overseas options soon.

If Singapore companies wish to pass over someone with a good resume for someone with less talent but is more convenient, then to hell with them, I say.

Hmmm... maybe we should form a band and see where that takes us... Haha.... He'll play guitar and I'll sing. *grin*

You want to join us? ;P

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Postby zltm089 » Fri, 08 Jun 2007 4:39 am

can i join you? i haven't got any EXPERIENCE though and you would need to apply for my work permit! lol

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Re: Discrimination Upfront

Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 08 Jun 2007 6:10 am

miss_jay wrote:My boyfriend has been trying for a year to get a job here - he is Russian and apparently companies don't want to apply for a work Visa for him because it's "a hassle". We've always suspected this, based on what happens in the interviews, but we finally found out for sure when my brother tried to help him get a job in a well-known company that he knew was hiring.

My brother reported that the company was impressed with my boyfriend's resume, but said that they would prefer to hire someone local and less experienced so that they do not have to go through the hassle of applying for a work visa.

This was infuriating and frustrating...

Isn't there anything we can do?


It's not really a "hassle" to apply for an EP... in fact, it can be done online in about an hour. It is up to the employee to provide relevant documentation... CV's, transcripts, grade sheets, etc.

But, companies must make a judgement call as to whether the EP application will be approved. As has been stated many times, the criteria for approval is not simply that you are experienced or hold degrees, but that you possess skills or talents that cannout be found in the local market.

I would never apply for an EP for a programmer or web developer, for example, unless they stood head and shoulders above most in the discipline, because there are lots of both in Singapore.

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Postby kyshine » Fri, 08 Jun 2007 9:32 am

LUck plays an important role as well.

Sometimes we have all the good qualifications and experiences but yet we are still unemployed. Worse still, there are so many people that are not fitted in their job, but they are holding a great job and salary. I bet u all encountered that before.

Q sera sera.... whatever will be will be,


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