Singapore Expats Forum

DISCRIMINATION? GRADUATE WITH NO EXPERIENCE, HOW EASY?

Discuss about getting a well paid job or career advancement. Ask about salaries, expat packages, CPF & taxes for expatriate.

zltm089
Member
Member
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon, 04 Jun 2007

DISCRIMINATION? GRADUATE WITH NO EXPERIENCE, HOW EASY?

Postby zltm089 » Mon, 04 Jun 2007 11:28 am

Hi everyone! seen some interesting posts on this forum. about people who might hav faced discrimination or who think they hav. Anyways, i hav heard that some adverts tend to b discriminative in the sense that they ask for PR residents only. I do appreciate that it can be very frustrating for some people. from the singaporean/local fresh graduate point of view, they will tend to feel that expats r takin all the jobs that could be done otherwise by a local. and ETC ( THE argument that foreigners are always seen as using the countries resources, taking all the jobs, getting all the benefits from the govt, etc°)

However, i think that some companies even countries tend to forget that "beggars can¨¨t be chosers" everyone wants "talented" work force! by this they mean several years of experience with honours degree from reputable universities. However, this is very hard to find! so u can either get a fresh graduate or a professional with more than 10 years experience. so i fink that companies n countries shud stop being so demanding!!!!!!!!!! I have studied in england for 6 years, done 2 degrees and currently doing a professional accountancy exam. i paid the full overseas tuition fees; 10000 british pounds per year btw!!!! thats a total of 40000 only on tuition fees, that i have spent in england; n still i found it hard to get a job or permanent residence!!!! i get the feeling that it is the same in singapore!!! i hav the impression that countries n employers are too demanding some times. I AM NOT SAYING THAT THEY SHOULD LET ANYONE IN THE COUNTRY OR EMPLOY ANY RANDOM LOSER ie lowering their standards However they should at least be considerate n not expect all graduates to hav 5 yrs experience!!!!

I just wana know why is it so hard for a 26 year old with 2 degrees from 2 top British universities and property owner, with decent funds in the bank account to get a decent job and a bloody visa!!!!!!!!!!!! I AM NOT ILLITERATE, or POOR or INVALID or watever!


I am currently in london, but i m thinkin of moving to singapore, im just worried that i come here for 1 year on their employment visitor eligibility thingy and don:t get a job after looking for 1 year!!!! so then i would have wasted my time and money!!!!!! and will hav to leave and find another country!!!!!!!

THANKS FOR YOUR COMMENTS N ADVICE GUYS ; sorry if i sounded a bit bitter..... just a bit frustrated these days;

User avatar
Strong Eagle
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10835
Joined: Sat, 10 Jul 2004
Location: Off The Red Dot
Contact:

Postby Strong Eagle » Mon, 04 Jun 2007 11:41 am

The answer is that it is not the employers who are being so "demanding", it is the government.

Singaporeans are also working hard and graduating with degrees and certifications similar to what you have mentioned. So, it is very hard to justify hiring you over a local. Most companies won't try, even if they would like to have fresh foreign talent because they know the EP will not be approved.

EP's don't exist for foreign workers to come to work in Singapore whenever they feel like it, they exist because the government has determined that certain skill sets are in short supply. If you have a skill set determined to be in short supply then you will get your EP. But accountancy and finance are top draws for the college crowd around here so it is hard to see how your skill sets are in short supply.

zltm089
Member
Member
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon, 04 Jun 2007

Postby zltm089 » Mon, 04 Jun 2007 12:29 pm

Thanks for ur comment eagle... yeah ... well these governments should start being more realistic!!! singaporean and all the others, with their "points system" highly skilled migrants programme!!! because i fink that they won:t b successful in attracting the people they r targeting! they mite as well employ a fresh graduate whos got the potential of becoming what they are after! instead of getting it the "easy" way ; because at the end of the day, its a 2 way process!!!

i kno im gettin a bit annoyin with all my questions; but since there seems to be loads of experienced HRS on this forum; i would really appreciate ur advice.

I have done a BSc in management at Royal Holloway Uni of London and a postgraduate diploma in business at the uni of Bath. I have passed the level 1 of the ACCA qualification. I have 5 months work experience in retail banking as a counter clerk and 6 months work experience in marketing as a sales advisor for a fitness club.

I know the work experience is crap but is there any chance that i get a decent position in the banking/ or marketing sector?and that i get an employment pass? please be honest guys.... THanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

askmeagain
Member
Member
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed, 05 Oct 2005

Postby askmeagain » Tue, 05 Jun 2007 4:03 pm

Well, Strong Eagle is right. Most of the developed countries have "protection rule" this is what I say in nice words, not discrimination, which has made these countries more demanding over others.

These rich countries use cunning and unfair tactic to make cash out of poor countries. I think all we know how things work in this world. For example, these rich countries give help to poor country and enforce their policy. Sponsor corrupt government in poor countries to take advantages where as in their own countries there is strict punishment for corruption.

Lets look at some examples- Benazir Butto (Pakistan ex-PM) can robbed the country, build house in London, UK government keep quite and close its eyes. Education minister of Malaysia robbed the nation wealth and Australia government is happy to give him citizenship.

But imagine if a simple criminal escape from England and come to Pakistan, UK govt pressurize Pakistan government to handover him to UK. Further more UK give financial assistance to Bangladesh poor but same time impose rule that all top worker in this NGO will be UK citizen, whose salaries are thousand time higher than a normal worker in Bangladesh. So in other words they take what they give, in some other ways.

These are some of the examples how rich are getting richer and poor are poorer. God Bless this World and Human on this Earth!!!

User avatar
Plavt
Director
Director
Posts: 4291
Joined: Wed, 18 May 2005
Location: United Kingdom

Postby Plavt » Tue, 05 Jun 2007 5:29 pm

askmeagain wrote:Well, Strong Eagle is right. Most of the developed countries have "protection rule" this is what I say in nice words, not discrimination,


How you keep on, there is no 'protection rule' as you inadequately describe it. Strong Eagle merely stated what you have been told umpteen times already; a requirement that exists in most countries. Nobody was talking about issues of corruption which exist almost anywhere. I suggest you stop bashing Singapore and examine your own inadequacies.

User avatar
Strong Eagle
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10835
Joined: Sat, 10 Jul 2004
Location: Off The Red Dot
Contact:

Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 05 Jun 2007 7:09 pm

zltm089 wrote:Thanks for ur comment eagle... yeah ... well these governments should start being more realistic!!!


But they are being realistic, and you have ignored the most obvious point in my post.

There are lots of fresh graduates here. They need jobs to become good tax paying citizens. They need jobs so they don't riot over lack of employment opportunities.

Why shouldn't the government put its own local greaduates first over you?

Your best option is to hook up with a multi national with offices over here and make it a point of telling them you want to get here as quickly as possible. Quite a few of them are very receptive to such ideas.

Get to work.

zltm089
Member
Member
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon, 04 Jun 2007

me again!

Postby zltm089 » Wed, 06 Jun 2007 12:42 am

thanks for all ur comments guys....hmmmm...eagle....i don't think they r being realistic in "asking" for people with degrees from world wide reputable universities who have more than 4 years solid experience in their field! come on! yes they might be successful in attracting a few but lets be realistic.... a 30 year old investment banker, educated at LSE and working for lets say Morgan Stanley with 5 years experience , currently earning over £55000 per year IS UNLIKELY TO MOVE TO SINGAPORE!!!! Unless he is really fed up of london city and all the money he is earning!!!!

people that will migrate are people looking for a fresh new start! Eg people who have no degrees, no money, or work experience (these ones tend to become the illegal ones) , other types of people are those fresh young graduates with little experience but who are willing to get it ASAP (i am one of them!) and the other group might be the young couples/ or families who want a new career in a different country (now i know a few families that have moved to singapore )

i gave a very broad description of the types of people that tend to migrate, out of these 3 "groups" i think the government should be less strict with the new graduates from abroad. Although there is the constant argument of the government protecting its local graduates!!! I think thats the main problem! the government should stop seeing graduates from abroad as being in competition with the locals! if they want to have a multi cultural talented work force they gota stop their "protectionist" measures and welcome fresh graduates from reputable universities all over the world! This will make it a bit harder for local graduates, yes! but there will be other long term benefits for the country in general.

AND PLEASE, DON'T PUT ALL GRADUATES IN THE SAME BOAT! MOST U.S and British universities are the BEST IN TERMS OF RESEARCH AND TEACHING AND REPUTATION.
i am not saying that singapore's tertiary education is bad, but when compared to some british and u.s universities , they just can't match! thats a fact!

so graduates from reputable universities can't be compared with local graduates! UNIVERSITIES ARE ALL DIFFERENT and so is their graduates!

zltm089
Member
Member
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon, 04 Jun 2007

Postby zltm089 » Wed, 06 Jun 2007 12:59 am

in reply to ur "rhetorical" question eagle, why shud the govt allow me to compete with the local graduates, I would say because I think that this will help to make the job market more efficient in recruiting talented people! if singapore graduates r so "gud" then let us "fight" and compete against each other for those jobs! LET THE MARKET DECIDE! and graduates from local universities don't need to stay and work in singapore, they can also migrate! but again, they will face difficulties (usa ,that green card thingy, uk and australia is the points system (very very hard to get), and canada also, points system and 1 year work experience which can be a bit easier! )

coming back to my previous argument, i think that since singapore is "expanding" , i think that graduates from abroad won't be detrimental to the economy!i think that the "cake" is big enough for local graduates and foreign ones to enjoy.

zltm089
Member
Member
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon, 04 Jun 2007

Postby zltm089 » Wed, 06 Jun 2007 1:10 am

ok , i think that i've said enough about my views lol....must have really bored u guys....i just need some practical advice now...

i have two options

1 come to singapore on the employment pass eligibility thingy, this will give me a 1 year visa where i can look for jobs in singapore.

2 i can start emailing cvs to companies with a covering letter saying that i am actually abroad and that i wana work in singapore.

which option wud you recommend guys? if i chose to come to singapore on the 1 year visa , i kno that it can be very risky because last thing i want is that i come to singapore and spend all my money on accommodation and food for 1 whole year and at the end of it, i have to leave because no employer was willing to consider my job application. as a similar situation happened to me , came to london for university studies and then after spending £70 000 during my whole stay in england i have to go back because no employer was willing to apply for my work permit and their points system is just not helping!

the second option can be very a very long process and the chances of success are minor.

SO ANY ADVICE OR COMMENTS ARE WELCOMED GUYS! thanks again1 and sorry for so many annoying posts! will buy you guys drinks if i do come down! talking about this, i read that the nite life is quite gud , how about the safety? r the public transport reliable at nite?

User avatar
Plavt
Director
Director
Posts: 4291
Joined: Wed, 18 May 2005
Location: United Kingdom

Re: me again!

Postby Plavt » Wed, 06 Jun 2007 1:56 am

zltm089 wrote:thanks for all ur comments guys....hmmmm...eagle....i don't think they r being realistic in "asking" for people with degrees from world wide reputable universities who have more than 4 years solid experience in their field! come on! yes they might be successful in attracting a few but lets be realistic.... a 30 year old investment banker, educated at LSE and working for lets say Morgan Stanley with 5 years experience , currently earning over £55000 per year IS UNLIKELY TO MOVE TO SINGAPORE!!!! Unless he is really fed up of london city and all the money he is earning!!!!


SE is being realistic since the Singapore government has operated this policy for a number of years now, if it was somehow detrimental to the calibre of people sought it would probably have been revised some time ago. There may or may not be tax-concessions and various perks that would make Singapore attractive to a foreigner with the right credentials.
You may not know but the last time I looked at the number of foreigners working for Singapore Airlines 60% of the pilots were/are foreigners. You may like to note that the stipulation for foreign pilots was commander level with experience.

people that will migrate are people looking for a fresh new start! Eg people who have no degrees, no money, or work experience (these ones tend to become the illegal ones)


These are the kind of people Singapore does not want if it allowed such people to immigrate the country would be overwhelmed with persons who would do nothing than create a burden and would often be unemployable.

the government should stop seeing graduates from abroad as being in competition with the locals! if they want to have a multi cultural talented work force they gota stop their "protectionist" measures


I don't think you understand the Singapore government is not 'wanting a multi-cultural work force' it is short of suitably qualified and or experienced persons and various races may apply if they are able to me the stipulated requirments.

AND PLEASE, DON'T PUT ALL GRADUATES IN THE SAME BOAT! MOST U.S and British universities are the BEST IN TERMS OF RESEARCH AND TEACHING AND REPUTATION.


You have me a little puzzled with this statement a good many Singporeans studied at the reputable universities of Britain, Austrailia and the US.


i am not saying that singapore's tertiary education is bad, but when compared to some british and u.s universities , they just can't match! thats a fact!


I think you may be wrong, I seem to remember although not for certain Singapore was among the top for teaching science subjects. Perhaps Sms or SE would like to add their comments here as I am short on information.

User avatar
Plavt
Director
Director
Posts: 4291
Joined: Wed, 18 May 2005
Location: United Kingdom

Postby Plavt » Wed, 06 Jun 2007 2:07 am

zltm089 wrote: SO ANY ADVICE OR COMMENTS ARE WELCOMED GUYS! ?


Why don't you concentrate on getting a job in your native country first and build up some experience? That way you can spend some time examine the economy of the country you may wish to work in. Some graduates have started their own companies in Singapore with a measure of success (incidentally Strong Eagle is one of them). From a simple viewpoint you badly need a plan of action as you appear frustrated and unwilling to consider the reality of the situation.

zltm089
Member
Member
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon, 04 Jun 2007

Postby zltm089 » Wed, 06 Jun 2007 4:44 am

thanks plavt for ur comments....yes, about the illegal immigrants, for sure singapore doesn't want them! i wudn't want them either in my home country! i just wanted to create a clear boundary between those "illegal" scumbags and fresh graduates from abroad.

one thing u mentioned about the pilots etc....thats my whole point....to be able to work/live in singapore (or any decent country) u then have to be extremely qualified and experienced! n this is being very demanding n unrealistic!!! to some extent!....not everyone is a pilot or an advanced NASA engineer! I was just disputing the fact that governments in general tend to be very very strict with fresh foreign graduates! (FAIR ENUFF IF THEY ARE STRICT WITH ASYLUM SEEKERS OR THOSE PEOPLE THAT HAV NOTHING AT ALL) well most of the countries i have considered moving to! i know its a fact ,very hard fact of life indeed...employers/governments all want people with good qualification and experience! but HOW are we suppose to get this "experience" if we can't get a job in the first place!

anyways with regards to my plan of action...i know what i want and i know what i have! i have 2 degrees and enough funds to support myself for roughtly 8 months if i were to move to a foreign country . i just need to find somewhere now where a graduate would be able to get some work experience and contribute to the economy!

I just don't like my home country! thats why i want to move out!!! just don't ask why! lol

i am considering australia, canada, and singapore. i thought that singapore would be the easiest but i think that i hav been wrong! its the easiest in terms of letting you in the country, but when your employment pass eligibility has expired after 1 year and if u haven't managed to get a job, then ur OUT!

thanks guys for all ur help and comments, much appreciated. i really need some advice atm because i will need to make a decision soon.

User avatar
Plavt
Director
Director
Posts: 4291
Joined: Wed, 18 May 2005
Location: United Kingdom

Postby Plavt » Wed, 06 Jun 2007 5:13 am

I never said anything about illegal immigrants, please don't put words in my mouth.

I think you are just ranting for the sake of it now, having two degrees does not give you a dvine right to gain employment in somebody else's country, nor is it a plan of action as you claim. You have to gain your experience outside Singapore. By the way that is the case anywhere else: for example; some may teach English in Japan but a good job worth looking at would require a degree and experience. Just have to bite your tongue, degrees don't always mean that much.
Last edited by Plavt on Wed, 06 Jun 2007 7:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

Marlowe
Member
Member
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun, 11 Mar 2007

Postby Marlowe » Wed, 06 Jun 2007 7:01 am

mate, one thing i'd recommend is that you practice "writing like an adult". i'm sure you & your friends all use shorthand you developed using sms, but i would never hire anyone who wrote emails in the style that you write your posts. i skipped about 90% of your message because it's a pain in the arse to read.

zltm089
Member
Member
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon, 04 Jun 2007

Postby zltm089 » Wed, 06 Jun 2007 7:36 am

marlow, i here to get ideas and advice on finding a job in singapore. i am not here to impress anyone of you people so that i can get a job in your companies, so i can write whatever way i want to. no need to get cheeky.


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Careers & Jobs in Singapore”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest