Rental Increases?!!?! :(

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ScoobyDoes
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Post by ScoobyDoes » Mon, 09 Jul 2007 12:38 pm

huggybear wrote: However I meant more in terms of ... if i'm a landlord and i'm renting an apartment ... i'm not going to put in nice appliances such as a sub zero fridge, wine coolers, nice viking range, jacuzzi ... etc i'm going to put in the cheapest appliances i can find on sale ... when the renter moves out and i want to sell then i'll renovate nicely and put in nice appliances. If you cap rents then there is even less incentive to have nice apartments for rent.
You've said there will be no incentive for the landlord to provide a nice apartment under a rent cap scheme yet you've also said that as a landlord you'd put in the cheapest stuff you can find. This is even without such a cap in place.

Apartments are not built on the initial premis they are for renting out. People buy them firstly for living in and secondly for renting out so there will always be a mixed level of quality available, and at the same mixed level of rentals. Nice apartments in themselves will be available but its then just how the landlord wants to fit it out, if any and you've already said that generally that can be the cheapest way they can.

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Post by LT » Mon, 09 Jul 2007 3:38 pm

huggybear wrote: the only thing asians care about is $.
I think not only Asians, generally most of the worldwide population do cares about money too....
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Post by German_Expat » Mon, 09 Jul 2007 4:21 pm

Just about anyone cares about money, but different cultures to a more or lesser extend. Here in Asia money is a top priority. This can be seen in the culture, you can feel it everywhere, you can't help but notice it. My observation is that Chinese are more money minded or shall I say wealth minded than others. What other culture burns paper replica money, houses, cars, clothing, etc for their ancestors? And don't get me wrong, I am not knocking it.... just an observation. This really stands out to me and does create an impression. On the other hand, Singaporeans seem to be more charitable towards the less fortunate than most other nations.

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Post by LBS03 » Mon, 09 Jul 2007 5:09 pm

I agree with your observation 'German expat' that money is a top priority here in Asia.

However, there could be more than one interpretation ... for example, one could also interpret that people in Asia potentially like to live within their means, create wealth / save etc as opposed to leveraging up (or spending all that they earn) to live the perfet lifestyle. If I look at my own country - the UK - it is easy to see the pitfalls of not being money minded but only lifestyle oriented!

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 09 Jul 2007 6:44 pm

German_Expat wrote:Just about anyone cares about money, but different cultures to a more or lesser extend. Here in Asia money is a top priority. This can be seen in the culture, you can feel it everywhere, you can't help but notice it. My observation is that Chinese are more money minded or shall I say wealth minded than others. What other culture burns paper replica money, houses, cars, clothing, etc for their ancestors? And don't get me wrong, I am not knocking it.... just an observation. This really stands out to me and does create an impression. On the other hand, Singaporeans seem to be more charitable towards the less fortunate than most other nations.
Interesting point about charitable. Here they are charitable in donating money (but I wouldn't say more than most other nations). But interestingly enough it is a money/wealth thingy as well. They like to call it being pragmatic (I, however, do not agree). They figure if they do NOT donate their time, then their loss is less as they can be making more money to offset the money given to gain face in the community. This is not as charitable thing at all but only a way of gaining face. The funny thing is, they are not nearly as philanthropic as a lot of western countries. As and for time spent (donating from the heart and not from the wallet) they are one of the worst. Unless you count the kids that collect for flag day and a multitude of other charities outside the MRT stations which they HAVE to do as they get ECA points for doing so not because of any really charitable feelings, only what's in it for them.
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Post by huggybear » Mon, 09 Jul 2007 10:41 pm

ScoobyDoes wrote:
huggybear wrote: However I meant more in terms of ... if i'm a landlord and i'm renting an apartment ... i'm not going to put in nice appliances such as a sub zero fridge, wine coolers, nice viking range, jacuzzi ... etc i'm going to put in the cheapest appliances i can find on sale ... when the renter moves out and i want to sell then i'll renovate nicely and put in nice appliances. If you cap rents then there is even less incentive to have nice apartments for rent.
You've said there will be no incentive for the landlord to provide a nice apartment under a rent cap scheme yet you've also said that as a landlord you'd put in the cheapest stuff you can find. This is even without such a cap in place.

Apartments are not built on the initial premis they are for renting out. People buy them firstly for living in and secondly for renting out so there will always be a mixed level of quality available, and at the same mixed level of rentals. Nice apartments in themselves will be available but its then just how the landlord wants to fit it out, if any and you've already said that generally that can be the cheapest way they can.
sorry ... i mean more that under a rent cap scheme there is no incentive to provide a nice rental apt. at least without rental controls then there will be the whole spectrum from rat infested holes with drug addicts to nice clean living spaces with cheap appliances to super high end luxury condos with high end appliances.

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Post by Shankar » Mon, 09 Jul 2007 10:46 pm

As a Tenant we always think landlords extort. But most landlords are none others than those who try to capitalise the rent they pay, thinking that it is better to own apartments as the rent paid never returns.

It is only after we own an apartment we get to see the real world as a landlord, for to be wise on a penny, One can end up losing all life savings.

Having to meet ends, they move back to HDB and rent out the private apartment and the struggle can extend. One month rent lost is 1/12th lost in their rent negotiation. Most landlords are happy to settle for less than the market, is for this reason. New tenant demands for newer furniture & renovation that comes as a bill again.

They have no choice but to go with the market. You need your own negotiation skill. Also understand that many HDB's are now thrown open for rent. So it is the tenant's own gauging of the situation. If you have a good pad, which is going to be demanded by the next prospect, then its good that you do a homework.

There is no such thing as Rent control etc. because there is no Salary control OR profit control in Singapore. Is a 30% salary increase justified ?

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Post by German_Expat » Tue, 10 Jul 2007 1:36 pm

There is no such thing as Rent control etc. because there is no Salary control OR profit control in Singapore. Is a 30% salary increase justified ?
There is no salary control or profit control in most other countries neither yet some have rent control. In those countries landlords compete on quality of their rental units rather than on price. And they still make a decent profit or they would not even consider buying property to let out.

The more is charged on accomodation the less people have to spend on goods, this leads to less production and consequently job losses.... I know I am oversimplifying here and many more factors come into play but increase in prices in any sector of an economy has a knock on effect. especially if those increases are way above the average.

A 30% salary increase is certainly not justified unless there is a %50 increase in productivity ;-)

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Post by Shankar » Thu, 12 Jul 2007 7:35 pm

German_Expat wrote: There is no salary control or profit control in most other countries neither yet some have rent control. In those countries landlords compete on quality of their rental units rather than on price. And they still make a decent profit or they would not even consider buying property to let out.
There is also no such thing as 99 , 999 year lease in most other countries. Even apartments get to own an equal share of the land and have the full right to rebuild or create more portions and sub-let.

Unlike here, Rentals are an extra income in most other countries.

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:06 pm

In a lot of major US cities like Baltimore for instance, while they don't have 99 or 999 years leases, you pay "ground rent" instead. This means you don't own the land either. Same thing with different names that's all. Quite a few big cities are like that.
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Post by huggybear » Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:39 am

Shankar wrote:There is also no such thing as 99 , 999 year lease in most other countries. Even apartments get to own an equal share of the land and have the full right to rebuild or create more portions and sub-let.

Unlike here, Rentals are an extra income in most other countries.

Cheers!!!
Shan
China leased HK to Britain for 99 years i think ....
bargain ... too bad Britain never subleased it out haha.

In NYC they call it a "Co-Op" apartment ... you don't own the property ... you own shares in a corporation that owns the actual ground and building.

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Post by ScoobyDoes » Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:51 pm

huggybear wrote: China leased HK to Britain for 99 years i think ....
bargain ... too bad Britain never subleased it out haha.
Oddly, HK Island had been ceded permanently to Britain in 1842 but the New Territories followed only in 1898 for those 99-yrs.

In theory, in 1997 the UK could have held onto HK Island and set up a new border to China over Victoria Harbour. That would have been crazy though in practise, given China only needed to cut the water supply to the Island to screw it.

Sorry, off topic :wink: Just find it an interesting point.

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Post by Shankar » Fri, 13 Jul 2007 6:19 pm

huggybear wrote: China leased HK to Britain for 99 years i think ....
bargain ... too bad Britain never subleased it out haha.

In NYC they call it a "Co-Op" apartment ... you don't own the property ... you own shares in a corporation that owns the actual ground and building.
yeah.. they must have taken it for cheap lease... No Rent Control law since Britain has to pay rent... English Law only applies if Britian has to collect rent.. :D :D

Anyway, the point I wished to make is that, Rent Control makes sense only in those freehold premises, where the rent consumes a fairly large percentage of the salary and that higher earning class occupies lower income group's accomodation and make them suffer & squeeze into smaller areas.

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Post by huggybear » Tue, 17 Jul 2007 8:31 am

HOME buyers feeling the heat from fast-rising resale prices for Housing Board (HDB) flats may be about to get some respite.

The HDB has taken the unprecedented step of disclosing figures designed to give an overview of resale prices region by region - along with the average sum paid above valuation.

Property agents expect the HDB's move to throw a bucket of cold water over some of the more absurd asking prices of late - some more than $100,000 above valuation.

These overly optimistic asking prices have resulted from one-off record high prices in the central area that have captured wide attention in recent weeks.

The new HDB figures put those numbers in perspective by showing that average resale deals islandwide are not nearly as high as the eye-catching sales.

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Post by expatbrat » Tue, 17 Jul 2007 9:04 pm

I have been reading a whole string of angry messages from expats living in Singapore taking it out on what they think are greedy landlords who raise their rents by 40%-50%. I am a landlord myself, and also an expat based overseas, living in rented property, so I can see both sides of the coin. When I bought my apartment in Spore 5 yrs ago, it was rented for over $3K. Over the last few years the rent dropped to less than $2K. I took the loss on that - it's the laws of demand and supply, these things happen - I did not come up with any paranoid consipracy thoeries or blame anyone (like tightfisted tenants for example). Now that the rental market has come up again, I have raised the rent to $3K. To my tenant it may seem like I am a greedy b*****. But the fact is I am still not covering the mortgage or the maintenance fees on the property, even with the rent increase to $3K - I am still taking a loss on the property! Things are not always what they seem. Sometimes, it's just easier to blame others.

Spore has been in a bit of a slump the last few years. Before that, rents in Spore were very high, even higher than this. So, think about it this way - it was a bonus that you have enjoyed low rents for the last 2 years.

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