Rental Increases?!!?! :(

Discuss about where to live, renting a property, tenancy issues, property trend and property investment in Singapore.
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gremlink
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tenancy hike

Post by gremlink » Wed, 13 Jun 2007 3:31 pm

amelia, forget greed. call it whatever you may but it smacks of disrespect when you repeat yourself in a forum as such where singaporeans are bound to read your comments. go back to basics. get your tenancy contract vetted properly before signing off next time. then if the 30% hike matches the market rate as per agreed in your lease agreement, it's just what it is. your protection is your contract. there are the usual pros and cons of living in a country not your original homeland. but you know, when in singapore, do as the singaporeans do. you win some, you lose some. I hope, though, that you manage to find a reasonable place to live at a reasonable rent. All the best for your delivery. Congrats.

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Post by German_Expat » Thu, 14 Jun 2007 1:00 pm

amelia, forget greed. call it whatever you may but it smacks of disrespect when you repeat yourself in a forum as such where singaporeans are bound to read your comments.
Singaporeans dont only read this forum, they are quite global these days and are likely to read comments anywhere ;-) and I have to agree with Amelia and I dont think I am alone in that...

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Housing Rental Increases

Post by rufustfirefly » Thu, 14 Jun 2007 9:30 pm

Almost all of us that have rental contracts coming up for renewal are facing similar circumstances. My landlord wanted nearly a 50 pct increase, and when we could not agree, someone else moved in two weeks after we moved out and paid rent that was more than 50 pct up from ours. Still we managed to find a place that we like more just a short distance away for about 10-15 pct more than what we had been paying.

What I would like to know is, does anyone know where I can get reliable statistics on how much housing rents have increased during the last 2 years in the prime districts?

Thanks for any help!

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Post by gremlink » Fri, 15 Jun 2007 12:04 am

Singaporeans dont only read this forum, they are quite global these days and are likely to read comments anywhere Wink and I have to agree with Amelia and I dont think I am alone in that...
you get my point. and yes, lots of things are global. but we're obviously not talking charity here. but let's not get started on charity now, shall we? :wink:

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lets not talk charity.....

Post by German_Expat » Fri, 15 Jun 2007 5:34 am

right, lets not talk charity..... enough of that in the papers... obviously charity is not what it seems neither :wink:

Rental increases are not the only increases, buying an apartment is also rising sharply(then there is GST, NETS, Medical costs, sand, granite, COE, etc, etc, etc...). Those who buy now to sell shortly after are making a killing but those buying now and are planning to keep their apartment for some while are most likely going to be on the loosing side. Rental fees and prices are rising so sharp that they will peak out very soon. Once this happens it doesnt make sense anymore to buy because the outlay does not warrant the returns. Even now, buying a new apartment that won't be ready until a years time is very risky. In a years time the market could be on the way down again and then you have paid more for an apartment than it willbe worth when its finished.....simply because the buying has slowed down due to the high prices. The underlying trend maybe slightly upwards, but the peaks and troughs inbetween are still too severe....
and as far as expatriate contracts are concerned where companies are willing to pay the high rents, this is fast becoming a thing of the past. Only very senior managers still get these privileges and they dont usually stay here that long. In the meantime people from China and India come in to fill the void left by those who went. But expats from China and India are not likely to pay those rents, they tend to share accomodation to keep the cost down.After all, they are here to earn money to send back home.

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Re: tenancy hike

Post by k1w1 » Fri, 15 Jun 2007 6:58 am

gremlink wrote:amelia, forget greed. call it whatever you may but it smacks of disrespect when you repeat yourself in a forum as such where singaporeans are bound to read your comments.
Why is disrespectful for people to note that their landlords are greedy? What does it have to do with most Singaporeans, who do not rent?

gremlink wrote:go back to basics. get your tenancy contract vetted properly before signing off next time.
Great idea. By whom? And will my greedy landlord be open to this, do you think? A contract that states he can raise the rent by what the market is doing rather than what he thinks he can push for because he's convinced I have a massive salary?
gremlink wrote: then if the 30% hike matches the market rate as per agreed in your lease agreement, it's just what it is. your protection is your contract.
Most people have enough trouble getting their deposit back. And the contract (again, vetted by no one) is supposed to protect tenants from that blatant robbery...
gremlink wrote: there are the usual pros and cons of living in a country not your original homeland. but you know, when in singapore, do as the singaporeans do.
What exactly is that? Foreigners are not allowed to own HDB's. If we want to rent one, we have to do it on the open market and "market rents". have a look in the paper this weekend and see what people are asking for their flats at the moment. Hardly much difference between HDB's and condo's.

I appreciate what you're saying, but I think too often locals don't know that actually there is very little option available to expats here. An often very little recourse, which is going to see a lot of people getting really angry and/or leaving.

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Post by German_Expat » Fri, 15 Jun 2007 11:01 am

Well said k1w1 :) I also have some experience with my previous landlord simply keeping some of the security deposit against what we had agreed at the handover.

I lived in the east, my rent was to go up by almost 100% so I moved to the west and have an increase of 20% plus a much larger place. Ok, I have to travel 1 1/2 hours to and from work each day instead of 30 mins. When my lease runs out in two years time I will stop paying rent two months before to avoid the problem I just had. I am also looking to move to Johor and work from home, effectively cyber commuting :)

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Re: lets not talk charity.....

Post by audiojunky » Fri, 15 Jun 2007 2:06 pm

German_Expat wrote:But expats from China and India are not likely to pay those rents, they tend to share accomodation to keep the cost down.After all, they are here to earn money to send back home.
Yeah right - which world are you living in?? Most Chinese and Indians who are moving to Singapore now typically have great positions in the financial and IT industry and hence loads of money ... Costa Rhu and condos which are premium places to live are full of Chinese and Indians ... and the Indian & Chinese economy are booming... not like the dying German economy.... maybe you should start sending money back!!!

Do you ever read the newspaper - apparently not!!!

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Post by gremlink » Sun, 17 Jun 2007 9:32 pm

Great idea. By whom? And will my greedy landlord be open to this, do you think? A contract that states he can raise the rent by what the market is doing rather than what he thinks he can push for because he's convinced I have a massive salary?
By lawyers. That's what we do. Only a lot of people somehow don't believe it or believe in it. Whether your LL would be open to it would depend obviously on market forces. LL's market or tenant's market. There are choices. But sometimes you're just incapable of exercising them as you would in normal conditions.

Retaining your security deposit for no apparent reason? See, that's where you check out your lawyers, again. I agree that LLs can be bullies. I've encountered as many studying overseas. EVERY security deposit got swallowed up and each time coz they knew I'd be going home for summer and perhaps for good so I wouldn't pursue the matter. One didn't get lucky coz I did bother in the end. Don't let them think you're expats and hence can afford to be fleeced your security deposit. Get going and see someone for help.

Just don't get angry at the wrong people. :x

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Post by ksl » Mon, 18 Jun 2007 3:46 am

German_Expat wrote:Well said k1w1 :) I also have some experience with my previous landlord simply keeping some of the security deposit against what we had agreed at the handover.

I lived in the east, my rent was to go up by almost 100% so I moved to the west and have an increase of 20% plus a much larger place. Ok, I have to travel 1 1/2 hours to and from work each day instead of 30 mins. When my lease runs out in two years time I will stop paying rent two months before to avoid the problem I just had. I am also looking to move to Johor and work from home, effectively cyber commuting :)
I will stop paying rent two months before to avoid the problem I just had.


Make sure you have some bolt cutters to cut off the lock! I had the same problem from the landlord and didn't pay the last months rent, because he was holding my deposit, and conveniently lost the contract, loaned ours to photo copy but lost it too!

I personally invited the chicken blah blah blah down to my apartment, but he avoided coming, he threatend to put a padlock on if i didn't pay the last months rent!

He talked about integrity of which he could never define, when i requested him to do so!

Personally I hope the world does get to know, what the greedy landlords are like in Singapore, and hopefully the government will also get to read this, and consider just how bad, these parasites, squeez their own people, that do not have a HDB. when they return to this country.

Tenants charter is the only way for protection for the sake of families and the inconvenience of uprooting school children.

Its a bloody disgrace and also shameful, to be so greedy that many Singaporeans have to con every foreginer, that turns up! We have been moved almost 2 months and are still waiting for our deposit!

But I guarantee he will pay in one way or another! even if it means naming and shaming in the newspaper and I've just lately told him so!

I have heard lately the rent is doubled and he's tried to get foreign workers to move in, I was talking to the foreman of the workers from China and Indonesia but they told me the apartment is not worth that much, which is very true, Becuase when I built the kitchen, I took it all with me. Although it's very big, and worth 1000 to 1200 but not 1600, becuase for 1600 you can rent a very good HDB, so its still empty! and the owner is a property dealer.

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Post by k1w1 » Mon, 18 Jun 2007 8:14 am

There are some real idiots out there who are just determined to get every last dollar they can... That place will probably sit empty for months now, and the landlord will just try and hold on for the rent he's asking.

I read the property section of the straits times this weekend. Someone is asking $2k for their HDB flat, and there are a LOT of places going for $1.7-1.8k too. What total nonsense. In January of this year, I moved into a pretty big house which costs 2k! You can still get condos for that price. I also noticed a HUGE number of them saying things like "expats preferred" or "company lease preferred/only", so no guesses what they plan to do with the rent as soon as they get a chance! Or how much of the deposit they intend to give back.

I also noticed that there were pages and pages of people trying to sell their flats too - a good sign that things are not going to remain as they are. Everyone is trying to hock off their places while the market is still "hot".

I personally know about half a dozen people who are planning to leave Singapore soon because it has become an unattractive place to live as an expat. The days of the expat package is long gone, and while some still get rental allowances, they're probably not getting the rent covered completely. I know my employer couldn't care less what my rent does, and asking for an increase in pay to help pay the rent would be a pretty big joke!

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Post by ksl » Tue, 19 Jun 2007 12:00 am

k1w1 wrote:There are some real idiots out there who are just determined to get every last dollar they can... That place will probably sit empty for months now, and the landlord will just try and hold on for the rent he's asking.

I read the property section of the straits times this weekend. Someone is asking $2k for their HDB flat, and there are a LOT of places going for $1.7-1.8k too. What total nonsense. In January of this year, I moved into a pretty big house which costs 2k! You can still get condos for that price. I also noticed a HUGE number of them saying things like "expats preferred" or "company lease preferred/only", so no guesses what they plan to do with the rent as soon as they get a chance! Or how much of the deposit they intend to give back.

I also noticed that there were pages and pages of people trying to sell their flats too - a good sign that things are not going to remain as they are. Everyone is trying to hock off their places while the market is still "hot".

I personally know about half a dozen people who are planning to leave Singapore soon because it has become an unattractive place to live as an expat. The days of the expat package is long gone, and while some still get rental allowances, they're probably not getting the rent covered completely. I know my employer couldn't care less what my rent does, and asking for an increase in pay to help pay the rent would be a pretty big joke!

I quite agree with you! The greed of some, just effects the sunlight shining from their butts! The apartment next to my old place was empty for the first two years I lived there, it was much better than ours, at the time he was asking 1200, 400 more than we was paying, then ours went to 1,000 and the neighbour said we can move into his for the same price, if we like! We didn't move it was well worth 800 to stay and 1,000 was acceptable, so we didn't move out, until he dicided he wanted 1600!

I quite liked the place, it was a very quite area, with private guard, the agent owner is waiting for enblock sale, although the commitee foreman said there is no chance of selling, becuase there are building limitations on the site that cannot allow building over two stories high. So yes it is just sitting empty! The idiot can't see, he would have made more money in the long run, by just letting us stay until planning permission was passed for the enbloc sale, which may never happen!

Anyway we purchased a maisonnette 148sq mtr and only pay a little more, so in the end, I believe we did the right thing in moving, the maisonette has increased by 40.000 since we moved. But the area is probably the cheapest around that i know of. Just off upper Upper Paya Lebar Rd, Tai keng Court and Gardens area. also when I arrived, there was a house empty for more than two years and it was only 1,400$ a month. lack of conveniences is the problem, Kovan is the nearest shopping mall and its a bus ride for the MRT too!

Although I can still get to the City within 30 minutes, so its just fine!

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Post by ututu » Wed, 20 Jun 2007 10:02 am

I'm with huggybear on this one. This a market at work, though admittedly its fluctations while it finds equilibrium are unpleasant the only thing to improve is to increase flow of the information. I would love for example to see recent rental transations history.

I personally will move the moment Singapore becomes unattractive place from COL/lifestyle equiation. It actually approaches that point so in couple years my family will move on to greener pastures.

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Post by k1w1 » Wed, 20 Jun 2007 10:28 am

gremlink wrote:
Great idea. By whom? And will my greedy landlord be open to this, do you think? A contract that states he can raise the rent by what the market is doing rather than what he thinks he can push for because he's convinced I have a massive salary?
By lawyers. That's what we do. Only a lot of people somehow don't believe it or believe in it. Whether your LL would be open to it would depend obviously on market forces. LL's market or tenant's market. There are choices. But sometimes you're just incapable of exercising them as you would in normal conditions.

Retaining your security deposit for no apparent reason? See, that's where you check out your lawyers, again. I agree that LLs can be bullies. I've encountered as many studying overseas. EVERY security deposit got swallowed up and each time coz they knew I'd be going home for summer and perhaps for good so I wouldn't pursue the matter. One didn't get lucky coz I did bother in the end. Don't let them think you're expats and hence can afford to be fleeced your security deposit. Get going and see someone for help.

Just don't get angry at the wrong people. :x
Gremlink, that's my point. LL's are not required to go to a lawyer to get a contract signed. God knows, most wouldn't.

Also, in Singapore tenants (as you know) are required to pay 2 months deposit. This amounts to LOTS of money. When I was at uni, I didn't live in condos and I paid a week's rent as security (even then, it was vetted by a tenancy tribunal - if the LL had wanted to take a dollar out of my deposit, he/she would've had to have justified it).

And I'm not sure HOW expats should not show that we're expats. The minute I call someone they can tell I'm not local. When they meet me, it's pretty damned clear I'm not from round this way...

I'm not mad at you or the wrong people. I just get peeved at the idea of someone taking (literally) thousands of dollars off me. Because they can, not because I damaged anything. And it gets under my skin what's going on right now in the rental market. Rents have nearly doubled - not the 10% increase I keep reading about. I don't know anyone whose rent went up 10%. If that were the case, not many would complain.

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Post by huggybear » Wed, 20 Jun 2007 1:10 pm

k1w1 wrote:I'm not mad at you or the wrong people. I just get peeved at the idea of someone taking (literally) thousands of dollars off me. Because they can, not because I damaged anything. And it gets under my skin what's going on right now in the rental market. Rents have nearly doubled - not the 10% increase I keep reading about. I don't know anyone whose rent went up 10%. If that were the case, not many would complain.
That's fine if you want to call landlords greedy. By that same metric, you are a whiny prat.

Why are you mad at "greedy landlords?" Why aren't you mad at the people who are actually paying the 50% - 100% increases? If renters in Singapore colluded with you to keep rents down (to help the whiny prats beat the greedy landlords) then we wouldn't have this problem.

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