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Cold Climate dogs in the Tropics

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 24 May 2007 10:22 pm

E-T wrote:For those who are bringing their pets into Singapore, please visit your pet very often at the quarantine. There are certain issues that I would not want to talk about openly, but I had first hand bad experience when I imported my Husky puppy many years ago.


E-T,

I can see why. They probably thought they were dealing with a numbskull. In your case I would think YOU need advice and not be trying to give it.

For the life of me, I cannot believe anybody could be so cruel as to import an animal to Singapore that is not suited to the climate. Husky's should NEVER be imported into a tropical climate. To me that borders on Cruelty to Animals and is a criminal act. Somebody should make you wear a anorak 24 hours a day and not allow you to take it off no matter what even when walking up and down Orchard Road or Sitting on the beach or in the National Stadium.

Sorry if I come on strong, but I was a breeder/trainer/handler of Corgi's (Cardigan's) in both obedience and show many, many years ago. I've seen a lot of stupid things done around the rings, but none as bad as what I see people doing bringing Huskies, Newfoundlands & St. Barnards into Singapore. Their answer is always something inane like "we'll keep them in an air-conditioned environment" when talking about a big dog that needs exercise and room to run. Even worse, I think Huskies have to be muzzled in public as well.

:mad:
Last edited by sundaymorningstaple on Sat, 26 May 2007 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 24 May 2007 11:10 pm

Poms are not a purely cold climate dog and as they are toys they don't require the space needed by large outdoor types of dogs. I may be a bit harsh, but put yourself into the cold climate dog's paws (used to ice & snow) for a day in tropical Singapore where the concrete may be upwards of 80 or 90° or even more. This is an ongoing battle that the AVA, SPCA and other animal groups have been waging for a number of years. There is even talk of banning those breeds like they have done for pit bulls and a couple of other breeds due to their viciousness. Again, it's sad that the government has to be a nanny government because some people are so thoughtless.

I'm an old farmboy, so I tend to look at our four-legged critters a bit different than those people who buy pets for ornamental purposes only. I've only ever owned working dogs. Including the corgi's. Think of the animal, not yourselves.

sms

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Postby E-T » Fri, 25 May 2007 1:15 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:E-T,
I can see why. They probably thought they were dealing with a numbskull. In your case I would think YOU need advice and not be trying to give it.


Before we head anywhere else in this discussion... define cruelty. :)

If you wanna talk about suitability, there are much other dogs that are not suitable for tropical climates. Based on your feedback, is it time for AVA to ban all dog imports as long as the hitorical traits tell us they are not bred in these climates? Shetlands? Collies? German Sheperd? The list can go on and on. Does anyone come up to you and tell you that... you are not born for our climate here too?

Much respect goes out to you as a breeder. However, as a moderator here and all the more as a fellow dog lover, please bear in mind you are NOT the only dog lover in the entire world. Likewise, I have also seen tonnes of "proclaimed breeders" hence I imported mine from a certified breeder at a much higher price and not grab one off the shelf from petshops who treat dogs more like commodities.

Lastly, I don't actually think anyone here is debating on right and wrong. Someone is asking a question in need of help, and I answered it based on accurate information without prejudice. If you don't like my answer, you can ban me for "providing accurate information which is not to the liking of the moderator." It's useless to scream your head off at me because I don't control AVA, and I cannot change the rules.

Talk about numbskull.
Last edited by E-T on Fri, 25 May 2007 1:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby jpatokal » Fri, 25 May 2007 2:58 pm

E-T wrote:Does anyone come up to you and tell you that... you are not born for our climate here too?

You're here by your own voluntary choice. Your dog is not.

If you don't like my answer, you can ban me for "providing accurate information which is not to the liking of the moderator." It's useless to scream your head off at me because I don't control AVA, and I cannot change the rules.

It's a forum, you're allowed to debate and nobody gets banned for doing so. While I see where he's coming from, I think SMS's "numbskull" was a bit uncalled for, but your own response is certainly not taking the higher moral ground.

And for the record, I prefer my dogs well stewed and served with a side of kimchi.
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Postby E-T » Fri, 25 May 2007 4:34 pm

jpatokal wrote:You're here by your own voluntary choice. Your dog is not.

If you don't like my answer, you can ban me for "providing accurate information which is not to the liking of the moderator." It's useless to scream your head off at me because I don't control AVA, and I cannot change the rules.


Our dogs didn't choose to be bred and domesticated as pets voluntarily as well, these are what breeders are doing in the name of "preserving the breed". In addition, don't dogs have the right to breed with their chosen bitch? Why must it be determined according to breeders' champion bloodline? Most dedicated owners know it all too well, all in the name for fame and monetary awards at competition at the expense of your dog! Does anyone go out to him/her and scream "CRUELTY and CRIMINAL ACT"? (Not to mention, brush up on his/her legal terms, understanding what is criminal act and what is not.)

Breeders, I have seen alot. Truly ethical breeders, less than 10 fingers. If moral is the issue, why did he/she re-locate and stop "preserving the breed"? Have he/she placed personal comfort and gains above his/her dedication to "preserving breeds"? Or why don't he/she advocate returning dogs to the wild since dogs originate from wolves anyway? Why take away their hunting instincts?

Talk about morals? It's easy to point a finger at someone in accusation, but it's difficult to point ten fingers back at yourself. He/She is not the ONLY breeder in the world who knows about dogs. Get over it.

Which brings us back to the issue, is this thread about bringing dogs into Singapore... or is it immoral to re-locate dogs in Singapore's climate?

I appreciate your effort to lighten this up. :D

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 25 May 2007 6:53 pm

E-T wrote:
jpatokal wrote:You're here by your own voluntary choice. Your dog is not.

If you don't like my answer, you can ban me for "providing accurate information which is not to the liking of the moderator." It's useless to scream your head off at me because I don't control AVA, and I cannot change the rules.


Our dogs didn't choose to be bred and domesticated as pets voluntarily as well, these are what breeders are doing in the name of "preserving the breed". In addition, don't dogs have the right to breed with their chosen bitch? Why must it be determined according to breeders' champion bloodline? Most dedicated owners know it all too well, all in the name for fame and monetary awards at competition at the expense of your dog! Does anyone go out to him/her and scream "CRUELTY and CRIMINAL ACT"? (Not to mention, brush up on his/her legal terms, understanding what is criminal act and what is not.)

Breeders, I have seen alot. Truly ethical breeders, less than 10 fingers. If moral is the issue, why did he/she re-locate and stop "preserving the breed"? Have he/she placed personal comfort and gains above his/her dedication to "preserving breeds"? Or why don't he/she advocate returning dogs to the wild since dogs originate from wolves anyway? Why take away their hunting instincts?

Talk about morals? It's easy to point a finger at someone in accusation, but it's difficult to point ten fingers back at yourself. He/She is not the ONLY breeder in the world who knows about dogs. Get over it.

Which brings us back to the issue, is this thread about bringing dogs into Singapore... or is it immoral to re-locate dogs in Singapore's climate?

I appreciate your effort to lighten this up. :D


Talk about going of on a defensive tangent! When in doubt about your stand, try to obscure the original point with heaps of BS. At the end of the day, I may have been a bit overboard in my term "Numbskull" at that point in time. However, I am posting in a personal capacity unless I sign off as moderator. So having said that, and in view of your subsequent comments I think I'll stick with the original term. You are right, you cannot change the rules or AVA. You can import with some common sense however. And to lay the blame on "breeders" is a bit of a joke don't you think? If nobody bought the animals then they wouldn't breed them. The more idiots that buy puppies for ornaments and bragging rights, the more the puppy mills will churn out. Good breeders don't sell to people who they don't think will be good masters (course who can tell -- they sold a pistol to an idiot at V.T. who acted sane at the time as well.)

Anyway, continue to try to confuse the issue. I apologize for getting up your nose in the first place, but after watching people here mistreat dogs for the past 25 years, I can no longer sit back quietly. Buy the puppy but when it's no longer a puppy or it doesn't automatically learn right from wrong because it's owner cannot take the time, then dump it at the SPCA. Or like a lot, just dump in in Choa Chu Kang somewhere. :x

I wish we could treat some dog owners like they treat their dogs!

I'm outta here!

](*,)

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Postby E-T » Fri, 25 May 2007 9:22 pm

Once you are established as a moderator, you will always be speaking as one.

Secondly, you have seen many owners who does that, BUT that doesn't mean EVERYONE does that. Your personalised assumption is baseless. I have seen alot of backyard breeders who breeds dogs for the sake of money, can I assume you are such a breeder too? :?

It's ok to be upset with owners, just like how I am upset with breeders. However, I don't think I come up to you and shaft it up in you.

Please do not talk to me about issues which clearly, you yourself is unable to do. Are you telling me you are trying to tell me to say/do something which you yourself can't do? Talk about common sense huh? Like I mentioned, it's easy for one to point a finger out at someone, but always difficult to point that same finger at themselves... thats YOU!

Confused? Here we are speaking of where we can quarantine dogs and someone leads it to right and wrong. Hur hur hur... are you kidding me?

C'mon... keep your ego to yourself. We don't need it I am sure.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 26 May 2007 12:27 am

E-T wrote:Once you are established as a moderator, you will always be speaking as one. In your eyes only apparently

Secondly, you have seen many owners who does that, BUT that doesn't mean EVERYONE does that. Your personalised assumption is baseless. I have seen alot of backyard breeders who breeds dogs for the sake of money, can I assume you are such a breeder too? :?

Still using diversion tactics huh!

It's ok to be upset with owners, just like how I am upset with breeders. However, I don't think I come up to you and shaft it up in you.

I'm not the one who openly admitted to animal cruelty - you are! (importing a Husky into Singapore is animal cruelty - Period!) I only admitted to breeding corgi's for obedience trials & showing As a matter of fact I don't believe I even indicated that I sold dogs? You know what they say about assuming things right? In your case I did not assume, you told us.

Please do not talk to me about issues which clearly, you yourself is unable to do. Are you telling me you are trying to tell me to say/do something which you yourself can't do? Talk about common sense huh? Like I mentioned, it's easy for one to point a finger out at someone, but always difficult to point that same finger at themselves... thats YOU!

:???:

Confused? Here we are speaking of where we can quarantine dogs and someone leads it to right and wrong. Hur hur hur... are you kidding me?

See your quote below. Had you let us know what you were referring to instead of being so cryptic some of this could have been avoided. As this IS A FORUM is it okay to address the issues you had.

C'mon... keep your ego to yourself. We don't need it I am sure.


E-T wrote:There are certain issues that I would not want to talk about openly, but I had first hand bad experience when I imported my Husky puppy many years ago.


What was so bad? Aside from the cruelty of importing a Husky into Singapore in the first place that is. You had a bad experience? I'm sure your Husky had a worse one that could have been avoided by not importing it into a tropical climate.

Anyway, if you think I have an ego problem, fine. I accept that. If you think it's okay to be cruel to animals. Unfortunately I have to accept that it takes all kinds of people to make a world. As far as confused, maybe I am. You obviously cannot see the cruelty of what you did but my continuing any discourse here is futile and you are right, I shouldn't have said anything in the beginning. I just cannot help feeling for animals that are at the receiving end of mindless unthinking cruelty. My apologies.

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Postby E-T » Sat, 26 May 2007 1:20 am

Since you're up for a good one... let's continue.

sundaymorningstaple wrote:In your eyes only apparently


If a police officer commits a crime off-duty, does he not go on trial being cited as a police officer who should knows the law better? No, consideration will still be put in, that he is a serving officer. Again, like you said - common sense.

Still using diversion tactics huh!


Diversion? Hardly. But I forgive you for not being able to answer up to your own baseless accusations. Try harder next time.

I'm not the one who openly admitted to animal cruelty - you are!


Please quote SPECIFIC WORDS that I have admitted to cruelty to animals. By my import...

1. I need not seek permission from you. You're not my father, I don't owe you a living, and futhermore... you're not God. So don't play God with me.

2. That I have neglect the well-being of my dogs, leading to bad health and subsequent death, or at least with undeniable possibility of death.

importing a Husky into Singapore is animal cruelty - Period!


If it is such a hideous criminal offence like you said, I welcome you to lodge a case against me. Question is... are you able to? Or should I just kindly enquire, do you even have a case at all?

PM me for my personal details, I am SURE you will need to furnish my details for cruelty to animals.

I only admitted to breeding corgi's for obedience trials & showing As a matter of fact I don't believe I even indicated that I sold dogs? You know what they say about assuming things right? In your case I did not assume, you told us.


Now you finally understand how it feels to have your words twisted. Welcome back to earth, this is what is known as "a taste of your own medicine".

See your quote below. Had you let us know what you were referring to instead of being so cryptic some of this could have been avoided. As this IS A FORUM is it okay to address the issues you had.


Perhaps it is you whom have mistaken the entire context of the post within your own little crust. Am I expecting anyone to address to my issue? Common sense tells readers that I am an individual whom has had bad experience, and this experience has been endured by many others. Obviously, you haven't been checking around very much.

If you think it's okay to be cruel to animals. Unfortunately I have to accept that it takes all kinds of people to make a world. As far as confused, maybe I am. You obviously cannot see the cruelty of what you did but my continuing any discourse here is futile and you are right, I shouldn't have said anything in the beginning. I just cannot help feeling for animals that are at the receiving end of mindless unthinking cruelty. My apologies.


Just like how many thinks it cruel of breeders and dog handlers to parade their dogs like some clowns all in the name of their own fame. To each and their own, but at least I am sure I am looking at a "pot calling kettle black" situation here.

Like you say, it takes all kind of people to make the world. Fake propogandas, have we not seen enough of it?

I will leave it as it is now... I guess it's time to stop haggling with someone who is so engrossed in what they think is right and omits any other things in the world.

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Postby micknlea » Sun, 27 May 2007 12:41 am

Just wanted to say that I was told by specialist breeders of huskies and similar breeds from very cold climates, that the dogs survive best in extreme temperatures, not just cold but also hot. The climate that they do not do well in is temperate where they constantly have to adapt to the changes. I think some breeds do very well in extremes and it is just a matter of treating them well. The breeds that do not do well in a tropical climate are those that are used to seasons with moulting etc. It takes them a long time to acclimatise, as with humans I might add.
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Postby jpatokal » Sun, 27 May 2007 8:45 pm

E-T wrote:Our dogs didn't choose to be bred and domesticated as pets voluntarily as well, these are what breeders are doing in the name of "preserving the breed". In addition, don't dogs have the right to breed with their chosen bitch? Why must it be determined according to breeders' champion bloodline? Most dedicated owners know it all too well, all in the name for fame and monetary awards at competition at the expense of your dog! Does anyone go out to him/her and scream "CRUELTY and CRIMINAL ACT"?

SMS isn't saying that you have broken the law. He's saying that importing a husky into the tropics is cruel and that this is, in his opinion, a "criminal" act. You will note that definitions for this word include "senseless; foolish" (Random House), "shameful; disgraceful" (American Heritage) and "bringing or deserving severe rebuke or censure" (WordNet).

And for what it's worth, I think dog breeding for the express purpose of developing maximally inbred freaks is also pretty cruel -- but I agree that it's the people who buy these end products that are really blame.
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