Horrible experience in Sim Lim Square

[AmyMar]

From my experience, it's better to shop from places like Audio House (Liang Court). They have a wide range and prices are fixed but reasonable.

[LLyap]

From my experience, it's better to shop from places like Audio House (Liang Court). They have a wide range and prices are fixed but reasonable.

Yup. I had bad experience at SLS too so I also visited Audio House for electronic stuff nowadays.

[ashnd76]

Well actually if you know your rights, then you could seek legal remedy.

If the salesman maliciously insulted you, degrading your dignity infrort of your family and the public you could always make a police report immediately.

Easiest way: you could file charges for assault. Do note that assault in criminal law means when you apprehend an immediate and unlawful personal violence. In other words the moment you feel threaten you are asaulted.

Verbal abuse is definitely assault. Even silence can constitute an assault if he walks to you menacingly.

There is no need for him to touch you in anyway. If he did, even a tap on the shoulder, you can go for battery, which is more serious.

Trust me, when you show them the police report, they will piss in their pants. Anyway, lodging a police report is free, thats the best part.

[rhino]

Gee, if you were feeling so negative about SLS that you were expecting to be "assaulted" by shop staff while you are there, wouldn't it be better to just go somewhere else? I'm sure the police would also appreciate not having their time wasted with paperwork just so you can play some lame power game with an employee at SLS...

[ashnd76]

sure you can go elsewhere, it's entirely up to the aggrieved customer.

However if you are aware of your rights, then you have more options to get it enforced.

Eventhough customer protection is not ultimate as in US or EU, customers are proteted by law here.

With rgds to the Police having extra paperwork, that is their public duty. With computers nowadays, police reports require minimal amount of paperwork in these straight forward cases.

Contrary to popular belief, we in Singapore do have rights but unfortunately very few people have actually read their rights in the Singapore Constitution, and thats a shame.

[sugarsnow]

my fiancee used to work in sls so I know from him there are alot of really bad, poorly managed shops there with some seriously psycho people working. My advice is don't black list the whole shopping center though, just don't go back to that shop for one and also when you walk into a shop at sls go to the counter and look for the pricelists. Theres always a stack of pricelists you can walk in and take from the shops that have them. Its free and just a paper with lots of items descriptions and prices. Once you have a few or all of them, Then go sit down and compare all the pricelists and decide via that which shop to go buy at. If someone tells you another price hen that on the pricelist its simple, pull out your pricelist and ask what happened to the price on the paper? Its best to just walk away and forget it if anyone gives you crap and better to shop with a local if possible. Lastly always no matter what country you are in, know the item you want to buy. Don't rely on sales people to tell you anything. Go see the things, find something you want then go home and check it out online is the best, many sales people wont know much of anything they can only help you by giving you the stock and pointing you to the counter to buy it.

[pinkcow]

I tend to avoid the first level if you know what i mean

[Hedgie]

I've been very disappointed about the quality of service here in Singapore as well. I moved from the States several months ago and from what I've heard and my numerous past trips to Asia I've always loved the great quality of service. What I've noticed in Singapore after living here now is this - sales staff will usually be very friendly and nice but they will rarely know much of anything about their products. In the States its sort of the opposite, the sales staff may not be as friendly as they are here, but they are usually well educated about what they're selling. Even if its something as simple as a pair of sneakers, with 50 different types of Nikes it's nice to have someone explain the differences between them and why some types would be better for you than others.

[audiojunky]

In the States its sort of the opposite, the sales staff may not be as friendly as they are here, but they are usually well educated about what they're selling. Even if its something as simple as a pair of sneakers, with 50 different types of Nikes it's nice to have someone explain the differences between them and why some types would be better for you than others.

Ah, not true!!! Best Buy, Circuit City sales staff are as clueless as you can get!! Walk into a Tweeters and the Sales Person will give a lot of advice thinking that they're audio/video experts, but the truth is that they've probably been brainwashed into 1-2 products that they must sell. Most of the time, if you've done 1/2 hr of research on the net, you probably know a ton more than the average shopkeeper. As far as shoes are concerned ... who cares!!! lol!

[saidean]

To the poster who wrote about assaults, I suspect you're not referring to the penal code in Singapore. Recent events sometime in Aug 2006 revolving around a medical doctor who was assaulted and the case classified as a civil case rather than a criminal one, along with other such complaints of lack of police action, is a strong indicator that you should NOT attempt to provoke the salesmen.

You can try reporting to CASE but I suspect that's not going to be effective either. Ultimately there isn't any consumer law that protects you and give you recourse. The best thing to do, is to let others here know the name of the shop and detail your experiences here.

Places in like PC World in the UK do have clueless sales rep as well, so it's not just the case that these folks in the SLS shops are bad. Rather, they expect that you should know what you're looking for, and go to them to get it. Don't expect stellar service from a place where the competition is so tight and the only way to compete is not through their service, but through their pricing. If it's any consolation, they treat foreigners and locals alike - rude and disrespectful.

And don't try asking for recommendations for OTHER shops (eg the poster on finding the repair shop). Unlike the UK where people are polite and will help you if you need directions to a particular shop/place, the shopkeepers here find that it's a waste of breath to point you to their competitor (which all other shops are).

Will customer service ever change? Not likely, no matter how many campaigns the government might mount. SO LONG as locals prefer price over service when shopping, what incentive's there for shops to be more customer-oriented?

Some of my favourite shops (eg John 316 in Funan for cameras) have great service but their prices are marginally pricier than if you risk being rudely mouthed at by SLS camera shops. But these shops survive because they have their loyal fans. I can only hope these shops continue to survive in the highly competitive world of technology shopping.

[ashnd76]

Medical practitioners have always been given a special place in the eyes of the law, in that they are very often accorded special protection against liability, even when they are factually negligent.

The fact of this case concerns a salesman under employment of a business entity, and as such distinguishes itself on material facts from the medical doctor case cited above.

If everyone toe the line and refrain from questioning the law and think hard on how to make the law work for them, then i guess lawyers would run out of jobs.

MEdical practitioner usually shy away from pressing criminal charge because criminal charges involves the State. And when they are called upon to give evidence in the criminal court, it will be reflected in their record. Like all professionals, doctors are registered and have to renew their licences.

If you recall employment contracts, there usually is a question asking if you have been involved in the court of law. If does not ask if you are the aggrieved party or not, or if you are the wrongdoer or the victim. The stigma is there and society frown upon such stigma.

And the fact that it is a criminal court, imposes a great deal of responsibility, because if the doctor somehow or rather gives an inaccurate recount as evidence, he can be charge for contempt of court.

Thats why he prefers a civil action.

Sure you can go to CASE, but it lacks the bite.

There are many ways to skin a cat, similarly there are many ways to make things work in your favour. It all depends on what you want actually.

[saidean]

To Ashnd76

I believe you may not be aware of the case with the doctor. He was assaulted by a gang in a public area (Hawker stall I believe). there were physical bruises as well as bleeding. He called the police who came to investigate 20 minutes later. The police pointed out it isn't a criminal case but to tell the doctor to lodge it as a civil case, which put the onus on him to gather evidence and prove that he was assaulted. He insisted it was a criminal charge but the police said otherwise. The police did nothing aside from take notes. No charges were made against the gang who hurt the doctor although license plates of their motorbikes were given to the police.

The public was infuriated because what's the point of calling the police if they are not going to act on what was clearly in this case physical assault.

So it's not a case of medical negligence, but the question of whether even verbal abuse constitutes assault as you suggest. In Singapore's law, it probably wouldn't.

[ashnd76]

well i've been hit by a bolt of lightning coz if what you detailed above is true, then the Police or the IO rather clearly gave a new meaning to the Penal Code ss350 and 349.

"whoever intentionally uses force...he will illegally cause injury, fear or annoyance...is said to use criminal force to that order"

I gotta take my hats off to the IO for bulldozing his way with blatant disregard for parliamentayr intention. Kool!

[ksl]

To Ashnd76

I believe you may not be aware of the case with the doctor. He was assaulted by a gang in a public area (Hawker stall I believe). there were physical bruises as well as bleeding. He called the police who came to investigate 20 minutes later. The police pointed out it isn't a criminal case but to tell the doctor to lodge it as a civil case, which put the onus on him to gather evidence and prove that he was assaulted. He insisted it was a criminal charge but the police said otherwise. The police did nothing aside from take notes. No charges were made against the gang who hurt the doctor although license plates of their motorbikes were given to the police.

The public was infuriated because what's the point of calling the police if they are not going to act on what was clearly in this case physical assault.

So it's not a case of medical negligence, but the question of whether even verbal abuse constitutes assault as you suggest. In Singapore's law, it probably wouldn't. The law was questioned by numerous posts to the Straits Times Forum but nothing happened.

Not long ago, in the new paper, some guy had is teeth knocked out, the police also did nothing, until it came into the news paper. It does seem that the policeman are left to use their discretion in these type of cases, although if you scream loud enough, the statements taken by the police at the time, will be reviewed, by more senior partners, and if further investigation is required, a follow up will take place.

So actually to say it isn't a criminal case would be quite wrong, and i don't believe the policemen would at the time jeopardize, their positions in such a matter, I believe that what may have been evaluated was that it was a domestic, or civil dispute rather than an act of crime, but further investigation is required, they are not prepared to investigate at that time, based on their opinion, and a civil case could be taken out, either way! So they advise him, that its a civil squirmish, rather than an assault, a fall out of spoken words perhaps, rather than the doctor standing there and getting whacked for no reason!

If he screamed loud enough i sincerely believe that the chief of police would consider what action to take.

A couple of bruises may indicate a skirmish, of which the police may evaluate as a civil disturbance and not a criminal offence, on the otherhand if he was damaged in a way of requiring hospital treatment, is another matter, GBH which is a criminal act maybe used, I believe, although i am not an expert, I think the discussion is interesting and the laws are not dissimilar to the UK.

Also one doesn't know if the newspaper got it right either! But what i do know, is that they can enforce a criminal act if they want, where all parties can end up in the doc, where all parties are punished.

No justice, happend to me on the night before, I was due to leave for the military two guys and two girls approached us in the early hours of the morning to, provoke the guy with me, into a fight.

The fight was well into the second round, and the agressor was losing, so his friend joined in, and i was enjoying the scenery, until my mate said, don't just stand there! I replied, i thought you was an hard case and could at least handle two, in the end I had to join in!

I took one of them and accidently knocked him through the fruit & veg shop window,!

Who come off the worst in the magistrates court? I did!

They all had quite serious previous convictions for assault and my mate also had one for a firearm on the street, Although I had caused the most damage to the window and the guy, so i got the heaviest fine.

And the others all laughed about it, and the fight was not yet over!

The court wasn't really interested in who started it, it was a civil disturbance and i had caused injury, I could have been charged with a criminal offence for GBH, although two of us needed hospital treatment I guess the police when they picked us up decided it was a civil disturbance, or public order, or deemed not serious enough to be a criminal offence. Apparently they had fought several times before, i was just unlucky to be there at that time! So even in Singapore police discretion is probably used.

[ksl]

The news article:This was exactly what happened to a doctor in April last year. Dr Sebastian Liew was punched on the nose and abdomen by two men who were part of a bigger group and police initially classified his case as one of simple hurt. But the medical report showed he had suffered a facial fracture and the police later upgraded the case.

Looks like the same case, and they upgraded it!

But you are quite right, changing times and political goals can and do interfere with social protection.

Were I lived in UK, the police actually ignored human rights and petrol bombing on a guy that lived across from me, everything that happend was documented, he had documented about 4000 offences against him, many of them racially motivated.

The police never ever came on our patch, it was feared and neglected for more than 10 years, because of priorities, mostly that crime and assults had been given low priority, in working class areas, because of increasing targets for the force to earn money, through concentrating more on motor offences, and protection of private areas, were the risk of injury was less likely.

I would swear on the bible, that an incident of breaking into the cooperative shop, was watched by myself at 3 a.m in the morning, my property direct across the road, I watched the police car drive slowly up, and shine his torch at the damaged doorway, I went to the door, and said the guy is still inside, but they decided it unsafe and drove off. I don't mind saying I have never seen so much cowardice in all my life!

I stood there and waited for the guy to come out myself, and said to him, make the most of the drinks and cigarettes, because your knicked! The people running the shop for many years, couldn't get insurance to cover any losses, because of the bad area!

The locals however relied on that shop, so the guy had to be turned in! He was a local villain, that preyed on the weak and timid.

What shocked me mostly was the local council, that have their own powers and the police force was sued, by the owner, after complaints from a London group called Blimp I think it was, a grp that fought for human rights and equality.

The guy was paid off 180.000 pounds to move to another area, while all other lost their property values.

The whole farce from beginning to end was a planned political strategy thought up in parliament, and started to be implemented by Magret Thatcher, it was the governments intention to sell off all government housing.

The only way was to con everyone into purchasing their properties, there had to be some fallout!, people released from prison, murderers, rapists, and paedophiles, along with alcoholic, would be dumped on the housing estate, to clean up others! Police officially gave these areas very low priority, there was a colour coding on the estate, toeasy identify from the air.

A very good local community that was first established after the war time, was targeted, by the USA type of policy making, of which is still being carried out, privatisation and capitalism, this is just the start of an on going war, of which took me around 8 years to fathom out, what was going on. I even knew the attackers and the victims personally!

The victims being basically provoked at will, the attackers were low life hoodlums and criminals, with no education, who were constantly allowed to assault people at will, and mug when they felt like it.

Even my own 84 year old mother was robbed on her doorstep more than once, so I do have a very good insight in how police forces operate and act in good and bad times. The days of the bobby's house down the road, the friendly estate copper have long gone!

http://www.blink.org.uk/print.asp?key=55

Social protection is decided by politics, laws are passed, doesn't mean that they will be enforced, especially if the priority is on capitalism. Social classes like the UK and USA breed contempt, that is the strategy voters, didn't vote for But they got! I am not confused at all, they, them in power have reasons, to do what they do, they can basically sit down and collude and control at will in the UK.

Thank god only one party is involved in the running of Singapore, at least one doesn't have to put up with all the bullshit, that many parties can create!

My philosophy in life is not to look back to often, life is far too short, to waste on governments, it is survival of the fittest in the end!