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new graduate

Discuss about getting a well paid job or career advancement. Ask about salaries, expat packages, CPF & taxes for expatriate.

so_much_to_think_about
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Postby so_much_to_think_about » Wed, 11 Apr 2007 5:33 pm

hello..i just joined and i find this forum really helpful. I want to ask help from u guys who are living and working in singapore atm.

I'm in australia right now and planning to work in singapore however i heard that its reallyy reallyyy hard to find job in sing especially new graduate.

I'm doing accounting and i'm scared if i go to sing and can't find a job over there. I'm thinking i should work here for experience about 2 or 3 yrs and go to sing to find a job. Is this better? ALso i heard that employees work until late where here is only until 5pm.

Pls can someone help me give me suggestion as i am really confused because i dont know a lot about singapore.

thxx soo muchhhh

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sundaymorningstaple
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:09 pm

Unless you are a Senior with tons of experience you chances of getting a job as an Australian Accountant over here without experience is, for all intents and purposes, absolutely nil. Are you willing to work for $1,800 SGD/month? That's what I pay my accounts executive. She's from Myanmar with 10 years of Experience with MNC's, Charitable Organizations and also about 4 years of Audit experience as well. Oh, I forgot to add, she British Certified and a B.Accounting.

Working hours aren't that bad, usually 9 to 6 40/hr week unless it's a local employer who may still be on 5.5 day 44 hr weeks (it's legal). It's not nine to five like most western countries as here they don't pay for lunch hours (mainly because the average singaporean wastes over a hour daily eating breakfast at their desks instead of working (not counting tea times). That actually gripes my butt as well.

so_much_to_think_about
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Postby so_much_to_think_about » Thu, 12 Apr 2007 4:37 pm

THx so much for that ..i really appreciate it
that gives me some insight to singapore working condition. actually everybody has been telling me same thing as u are but my dad
thinks that sing has great opportunity for work but i doubted it cos he
just know about it from what he read on magazines and newspapers.

Can i pls ask another question?? if i want to get experience here first
and then go to sing to work in international owned company not singapore owned, do u think i would get better salary?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 12 Apr 2007 9:43 pm

As a senior in a specialty niche yes, or possibly in a contract position with a construction project. Having a good SAP grounding would help as well for some of the majors or Big Four Accounting firms.

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Postby endlssorrow » Fri, 13 Apr 2007 10:06 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote: $1,800 SGD/month? That's what I pay my accounts executive. She's from Myanmar with 10 years of Experience with MNC's, Charitable Organizations and also about 4 years of Audit experience as well. Oh, I forgot to add, she British Certified and a B.Accounting.



wah... is she dumb? hahaha

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Postby so_much_to_think_about » Tue, 17 Apr 2007 3:46 pm

wah thx so much 4 everyone's replies they are really helpful and i wanna thank u guys also replies to private msg sorry can't reply cos i need to post more in forum in order to do that:D

anyway last question..hehe sorry to ask so much. So if i work here in Australia and want to work in sing, do i need to study again for compliance with sing accounting?

To endless sorrow: $1800 per month -is it not average salary for someone with that much experience?
thxx again

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Postby gupt » Thu, 10 May 2007 12:08 pm

oh come on. 1800 is very less and for someone with that much experience, my goodness!
Change :: the only constant.

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Postby muratkorman » Thu, 10 May 2007 12:23 pm

If you don't work for SMS, you may have a better salary when you reach that experience level :D

My suggestion to you would be "not to generalize everything according to what you hear"

It is a matter of "being in the right place and in the right time". You may catch a job in Australia which will provide you solid experience and good conditions. Why do you focus so much in Singapore? In my opinion, when you reach a certain level of experience, Singapore can offer some good conditions, but when you are a fresh graduate, you really have to be very lucky to find a job.

Another point is the working conditions. If you want to have a bright career, you should not think too much about the conditions, but the experience you will get. When you gain this experience, you will have more flexibility and more bargaining power for your conditions.

I hope you find what you are looking for.
With my kind regards

Murat Korman

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 10 May 2007 12:56 pm

gupt wrote:oh come on. 1800 is very less and for someone with that much experience, my goodness!


You really aren't the brightest bulb in the chandelier are you?

If you are coming from a country like Myanmar, you will work for even less that with more qualifications than that, just to get out of the country. (But with a degree the government decrees that they must be on minimum of 'S' passes therefore a minimum salary of 1.8K is guaranteed) As the standard of living is a huge difference, the money they make here probably puts them in the top 10 percentile of earners in their country. Obviously there is a great range in figures for someone with that kind of experience but the facts are facts. If you are a local with the same experience then yes, you would probably draw from 2.5 to 6 K/mo but not all employers are willing to pay those salaries are they?

Additionally, without experience, even if the OP could find work, it's doubtful that he'd receive more than 1.8K/mo w/o experience (provided which he "also" had the ability to speak mandarin). OP is admittedly a fresher/greenie w/out any usable experience.

Is it any wonder that 1 out of 4 people in Singapore are Foreigners? Locals are continually pricing themselves out of the market. When that happens employers tell their HR Managers (like me) to shop for more realistic employment costs. So we look to alternative sources that also usually, sad to say, have better work ethics as well as being easier on the payroll. This is especially true in areas that are, at best, pure cost centres to most employers.

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Postby gupt » Thu, 10 May 2007 4:51 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
gupt wrote:oh come on. 1800 is very less and for someone with that much experience, my goodness!


You really aren't the brightest bulb in the chandelier are you?



probably. neways, i commented on the difference between the salary of someone who has a singapore degree and someone who comes frm myanmar. you kinda supported my point thru ur explanation in ur prev post itself.
Change :: the only constant.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 10 May 2007 7:30 pm

Hate to tell you this, but Singapore degrees holders for the most part aren't any better than any other degree holder. They just think they are. All you have to do is give them an exam 3 to 6 months after they finished their courses to see that then only really studied for the exams and not for the long term knowledge. If you don't have the work ethic a degree is only another piece of paper hanging on the wall without any experience to back it up. It just says you theoretically have the ability to learn but that's all.

Generally, where possible I prefer a local with a poly diploma and a Aus or UK 3 years follow-up degree (in the UK or Oz). These people know how it's supposed to work AND how to MAKE it work. Plus they have the international knowledge as to how the real world works. Something direly lacking in a lot local graduates who seem to think they are gods gift to the country.

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Postby Makan24-7 » Sat, 12 May 2007 3:51 pm

SMS - I agree with you that polytechnics and UK/Aussie follow-up degree programs generally do produce graduates who can hit the ground running but here where I differ in opinion - and I think this is generally the difference between Asian and Western recruiting mindsets: Aren't fresh graduates supposed to be hired for their potential to succeed more than what they come pre-packaged? (you're American, i know)

Call me a snob but if I can find a person from a brand name school with the personality/character to fit and the propensity for success, should it matter that I hire an Art History graduate from Princeton as an M&A analyst at a Tier 1 bank over a finance major at a local school? After all, that person was smart/diligent/hardworking/(add other superlatives - could include sneaky/desperate LOL) enough to get into Princeton. And that is why Tier 1 banks and consulting firms continuously practice this.

Again, grossly generalizing, my experience is that yes, people may come pre-packaged but they hit a plateau faster and that plateau is lower than those who are good enough to get into better schools.

Ok, now I should wait for the backlash...

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 12 May 2007 5:16 pm

No backlash from me. I will agree with you assuming you are comparing apples with apples and not with oranges. If a person has the cunning (lump 'em all together okay?) to get into an Ivy League School or OxBridge in the UK then yes I'll have to agree with you. Here we are talking about an altogether different type of University. These are University's noted for turning out well-rounded and extremely intelligent individuals who, while may be lacking in a few areas, usually have, in addition to a reasonably level of intelligence, a number of connections. The financial institutions often times hire based on old school tie networks as well as I am sure you are aware. This also hold true for a lot of other major players in other industries as well.

As far as hiring for their potential to succeed, I think you are correct from a purely western perspective. Unfortunately, I don't think the Asian model works quite the same way. From what I've seen here, the employee's work ethic is non-existent so therefore the employers aren't keen to invest in individuals just to feed the competition. Again, from what I hear (not worked in the US for a quarter of a Century now) work ethic in the US has dropped considerably as well. You could comment on that now better than I. My HR concept is Asian in practice only because I work for a local SME company.

Also, the western universities tend to give more rounded eductions and while all are exam based to a degree, sit in on and listen to the questions being asked and the number of times a lecturer is challenged. Then do the same here in any local university. Here it's dead silence. Here they are only learning how to regurgitate existing knowledge as if it is the be all and end all. Questions are actually frowned upon. How is anybody supposed to be able to be an asset in a future employment scenario if they are not willing to rock the boat due to the culture they were taught.

My preferences noted before were for employment in a local context and not necessarily in an international context. However, having said that, I will also have to say, as a westerner who worked in the O&G Industry for 20 years worldwide, I will say that while in Asia I've worked with lots of local Poly graduates (diploma holders) and they are able to hold their own with anybody with the same experience levels and maybe a little better as a newbie.

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Postby Makan24-7 » Sun, 13 May 2007 11:43 am

Yes-you're right, I hadn't considered the different "work ethic" here. You are right again that the US work ethic has also gone down the tubes.

I remember how the Asian system works - teachers impart information, students regurgitate them in exams and everything the teachers say becomes gospel. The way History is taught is so different... in the US, History grads at Ivy League schools are highly sought after because they are trained as critical thinkers.. In Asia, well...'nuff said.

My short experience across several industries is different from yours. I absolutely agree that poly grads generally do come better packaged but their potential for moving beyond middle management into strategic/global roles is generally lower than that of their more traditional counterparts. Again, it's not to say there aren't any.. A few of the most astute strategic managers I know are community college/night school/poly grads but it's harder to find them in big numbers.

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Postby ecco » Fri, 22 Jun 2007 3:27 pm

haha! I had to admit your comments about education are very insight~~~. When I was in a Beijing University, memorizing stuff is everything. If you can not remember well, you'll fail the exams. Challenging opinions of professor is surely deadend(believe me, I tried :o )
Now I'm in an Australian University, many lectures will give a maximum mark of pass if you simply memorize. They also enjoy challenging questions from students.
I have no idea about the education of Singaporean Universities, but some Singaporean students seems extremely pround of themself :P their confidence really beyond their lecturers in Monash. :D
hmmmm......


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