vaccination choice

[MummyD]

I am possibly moving with my young child (4 years old) to Singapore soon. We have chosen not to vaccinate our child and really want to know from like parents out there whether this will/has/could cause issues with doctors and schools. This is a primary concern for us and we need honest opinions in order to make life changing decisions.

[t4sha]

we are from the uk (moved to SG at the end of jan) and have chosen not to fully vaccinate our children according to UK guidelines - my son is 6yrs and my daughter is 20 mths
my son attends an International School and my daughter a local preschool
neither asked about immunisations/vaccinations either when we enrolled them or since
with regards to doctors, they have not had to see a doctor yet so the issue has not come up...yet! ;o)
hope this helps
tasha ;o)

[fareastjunebug]

Fortunately, there are not many like thinking parents.

[t4sha]

excuse me......why fortunately....? you know nothing about our life as a family and our reasons for not vaccinating.....please don't be so ignorant - as a member of a democratic society, you must learn to respect a persons right to choice.....

[sundaymorningstaple]

excuse me......why fortunately....? you know nothing about our life as a family and our reasons for not vaccinating.....please don't be so ignorant - as a member of a democratic society, you must learn to respect a persons right to choice.....

t4sha,

I agree with you! NOT!

I think it's perfectly within Indonesia's right, if they come up with an inoculation against the bird flu, to withhold it from the world so that everybody all over the world has a chance of propagating the virus from human to human without regard to the feelings of most of the population and medical organizations around the world.

Good for you. Hang in there and I hope you don't stay here too long.

[t4sha]

sms,

i do not judge you on choices you have made in your life so do not judge me....when someone in your family (like in mine) has become damaged through a vaccine (and by the way before you say there is no proof, the British government has already paid my family compensation in 1999) then i am entitled to make a choice about my children.......furthermore, vaccines in the UK are not compulsory.....

mummyd - you do what is best for you and your family but again in terms of issues regarding not vaccinating, in SG, we have not had any

oh and btw sms - my husband is on a permanent contract here so unfortunately for you we are here long term -

i believe that anything in life is about choice and respecting others choice - no one should be forced into doing anything they do not want to do

[fareastjunebug]

t4sha

You are correct. Indeed, I may be prejudging. However, the tone of the original question with 'like minded' immediately sets off in my head memories of other posts by the antivaccination crowd that is afraid of Big Pharma, etc. Perhaps the OP will let us know.

What I can say is that the science on which those parents are making decisions has been revealed to be flawed. The children of these parents are also lacking what's called herd immunity. If even an attenuated version of polio, pertussis, etc comes through Singapore from a neighboring country, the children will be cut down in droves. As they age, the reaction to these children to these infections only becomes worse.

I've made the choice to accept a small known risk (allergic reaction to hen's egg, etc) to prevent exposure to the more serious hazards associated with some very nasty infections. It also has some societal benefits in helping prevent reignition of epidemics - read about the horrors of the 1918 flu epidemic. Public health is one area where I would have to carefully think about personal choice and responsibility.

In passing, I would note that the UK government also followed Bush into Iraq, so saying the government has paid past claims does not hold much traction on causality in the larger picture, at least with me.

Junebug

[sundaymorningstaple]

sms,

i do not judge you on choices you have made in your life so do not judge me....when someone in your family (like in mine) has become damaged through a vaccine (and by the way before you say there is no proof, the British government has already paid my family compensation in 1999) then i am entitled to make a choice about my children.......furthermore, vaccines in the UK are not compulsory.....

mummyd - you do what is best for you and your family but again in terms of issues regarding not vaccinating, in SG, we have not had any

oh and btw sms - my husband is on a permanent contract here so unfortunately for you we are here long term -

i believe that anything in life is about choice and respecting others choice - no one should be forced into doing anything they do not want to do

Yeah I know about the UK's policies. You should hear "ksl" expound on the British testing nerve gases & other Agents to it's soldiers without their knowledge. It's also common knowledge that sometimes adverse reactions do happen and full blown cases erupt. But, it's for the overall good of the general population (would have to agree with Junebug about the commonsense of Britain - look at Iraq).

I am sorry that you have had one but I have to agree, you original post was in the timbre of a nutter. This is a forum open to anybody who can figure out how to type their name and email address, so we do get our fair share of nutters. When traveling to new countries, do you ever wonder why it is that most countries advise getting malaria shots and various other shots depending on which country you are planning to visit? Wonder why the military's of the world give shots to all military personnel before going to foreign countries. With the SARS epidemic and now the Bird Flu (both of which started here and not in Europe) it would seem that you are deliberately jeporidizing not only your own kids but those around you. Especially as expats, you are almost certain to visit the surrounding Asian Countries. None of which are a health conscious as Singapore is.

I really don't care if, in your paranoria, you hurt your own family (well I do feel sorry for your kids. Only you & your husband have to live with that. I worry about the others who maybe killed because of a myopic viewpoint. (This isn't the UK)

As you said, it's everybody's choice. I agree. Did you give your kids the choice? Or did you take that choice away from them when you made the decision in the beginning? Just curious on your definition of choice.

As far as you husband being on a long term/permanent contract here, I'm not too concerned. I'll be retiring in a couple more years (3 at most I hope).

[t4sha]

i am confused as to why you are so high and mighty about others lives.........is yours so unfulfilling that you feel the need to preach to others? prehaps you are bitter and twisted from wrong decisions that you have made in your life - oil and gas not fulfilling enough? wished you had taken a different path? prehaps in politics?

throughout this forum you slate and disrespect others - for me i really could not care less that you do that - i love life and live it to the max - you on the other hand quite clearly spend a lot of your time arguing on this forum and love challenging others thoughts and opinions.....the original poster and myself did not intend to spark a huge debate on the pros and cons of vaccinating but rather she was after someones opinion and experiences......if you want to have a debate about immunisations then why dont you start another thread.....??????????

my son knows he has not had some immunisations (you wrongly assume that my kids have not had any...please reread the original thread where i have stated that i have not fully followed the UK immunisation programme - as many like-minded individuals have not!!!) -
with regard to giving my children a choice - you are right - i have not - i have given them immunisations without getting their consent - i guess any parent tries to act in their childs best interests -

are you also aware that some individuals have a natural immunity to some diseases and are not required to have the vaccine - again you assume that my children have not been tested for that -

btw i will not be replying to any further postings - i can't be bothered to waste my energy and time on such a bitter and twisted old man who jumps to conclusions

have a great day

[sundaymorningstaple]

- you on the other hand quite clearly spend a lot of your time arguing on this forum and love challenging others thoughts and opinions.....the original poster and myself did not intend to spark a huge debate on the pros and cons of vaccinating but rather she was after someones opinion and experiences......if you want to have a debate about immunisations then why dont you start another thread.....??????????

Somehow I find this paragraph strange. On the one hand I'm condemned for challenging others opinions but on the other hand the posts are after someone's opinions and experiences...........??????????? Obviously if my opinion doesn't agree with your opinion then it's called a debate, not an argument. Just because you didn't get the support you had hoped for is no reason to go off half cocked especially since you did not give the readers anything to really go by in the beginning.

Why is it that poster cannot seem to realize that we cannot see into your thoughts when you don't write enough data. Sure I may wrongly assume if you don't give us the information. Obviously I wasn't the only one. So...... you may want to take a look inwardly before flailing out at me......

Of course that's your right as well.

[k1w1]

In answer to the main question, yes, this is likely to be a huge problem. I would be very interested to see which International School allowed a child to be enrolled without showing proof of vaccination. Full medical details are required for schools here.

I have enrolled my children at international and local schools and have been made to show proof (and dates and batches!) of all immunisations they've had.

At home, I am pretty sure that (on the off-chance) an outbreak of a contagious illness occurred, children who had not been vaccinated would be sent home. Parents have the right to not vaccinate. Perhaps that's how it would work for the previous poster too.

[micknlea]

I don't know of any International School here that doesn't ask for proof, we certainly had to provide it at the two schools attended, and so had all the people I asked, it is part of the medical they have to go for when starting.

If you are concerned why not ask the schools directly for their stand on the matter?

[iis]

i don't know with International School, but for local primary school it's compulsory for the children to have certain vaccinations. You can check in the MOE website for the type of vaccines compulsory for primary school.
http://www.moe.gov.sg/esp/schadm/p1/immunisation.htm

[sundaymorningstaple]

While the position for not vaccinating a child is personal and not one I'm in favour of (already discussed), in all fairness, I came across this article during a side tangent of the Gardasil thread in the Beauty Forum recently resurrected. I post it here even though I disagree with the concept.

For those who might be so inclined.....

How to Legally Avoid Unwanted Immunizations of All Kinds

[batgirl_cdn]

Yes, the schools ask for a vaccination record, but they seem to be more flexible with kids from expat families who will likely be returning to home countries or moving elsewhere and not attending local schools. We have had our son partially vaccinated and he will soon start daycare. The school seems to be okay with the fact that he hasn't had all the jabs and I told them that we are fine keeping our son home if there is an outbreak of something he hasn't been jabbed for.

I applaud the parents who have looked into vaccination and haven't just taken their kids in to have the jabs according to whatever government schedule applies where they were born/where they are living. Every child is different and every family medical history is different, so the "one size fits all" vaccination schedules should only be a guideline for parents, not a hard rule. Vaccines DO harm some children and adults, it is a fact. There is a reporting agency for this if you doubt and want to see what kinds of complications can arise from vaccinations. http://vaers.hhs.gov

Parents should be choosing their own time frame of when to vaccinate, and they should be choosing which brands of vaccines they want, and they should be choosing to opt out of some vaccines if they feel so inclined.

No parent wants to harm their own child - in fact, choosing to partially vaccinate or not vaccinate at all is done in a conscious effort to protect ones children. Do some reading about vaccines and you will see why people have different perspectives on the issue.

A book I highly recommend is The Vaccine Book, by Robert W. Sears. http://www.askdrsears.com/thevaccinebook/ This book explains what is in the different brands of vaccines and it covers some of the concerns that parents have. It is not an anti-vaccine book - just a book to help parents make an educated choice about vaccines they will or will not give their children. I saw this book for sale here in Singapore at Borders and Kinokuniya.

Also, there is finally a new study on the MMR (Measles, Mumps and Rubella) vaccine that replicates Wakefield's study but did not find the same results. This will be very interesting for anyone concerned about MMR. Here is the study - http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Ad ... ne.0003140