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God Existance: Yes or No

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Kurozu
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God Existance: Yes or No

Postby Kurozu » Fri, 09 Mar 2007 3:50 pm

There are many Christians in Singapore that have never questioned the existance of God nor do they want to pursue the question on the existance of God. I was born as a Catholic and I have steady going away to believe more in agnosticism. A agnostic is someone who believes that people cannot know whether God exists or not. In contrary, many Christians in Singapore believe faithfully and without a doubt God does exist.

Christians have use the intelligent design as an argument for the existence of God based on the premise that living things are explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as Darwin's theory of evolution, or natural selection.

On the other hand, atheists posted "The Blasphemy Challenge" on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7QVbJnSPQE that has many youtubers in the digital age questioning the existance of god and the rational behind the Bible. More than 1000 had replied to this challenge, and most declared God simply does not exist.

I hope Christians, Agnostic, Atheists and other religions sect will join in this forum I created and discuss more on issue "God Existance: Yes or No". Leave your comment, and please be nice.
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Postby ./. » Fri, 09 Mar 2007 4:49 pm

I'll be as succinct as possible to sum up my opinion.

1. What is God?
A. I don't know...

2. Do I believe there is much beyond human understanding at this moment in time?
A. Yes...black holes for instance.

3. What we have learnt about our existence so far is staggering. Is it possible that the entire orderly Universe is a chemical coincidence?
A. Probably not... The vastness and diversity of the universe, is itself beyond the casual imagination, for such incredibly precise chemical coincidences. We have just begun to understand our own evolution and of our planet.

4. In light of 1,2, and 3 would I believe that the Universe is arranged (maybe even just a chemical freak arrangement contrary to no.2)? And on the flip side, not necessarily by or because of something within human understanding...
A. Yes...

5. Is it acceptable to me to call the cause (be it energy, or a substance, or something beyond energy and/or substance) of this arrangement - God? At least at this moment in time?
A. I can see no other way at this moment in time...

That is about the simplest way I can sum up my most casual thoughts on this topic. It is something I think of constantly but not something I care to debate.
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Postby ksl » Fri, 09 Mar 2007 9:37 pm

Agnosticism is the belief that knowledge is limited to human experience, which could also be a godly experience! The yard stick is what it is, and not all agnostics, will recoginise a godly expeience. Although one can compare to politics, everyone has different ideas, even if they are, all one party!

What is god! This planet known has earth is a result of the big bang, the elements found are naturally a part of life and death, it is my belief there is a god and we are connected by the spinal coloumn.

The energy, chemicals, planets and stars, are part of the computerised exactness, that make the planet earth a new toy, some form of looking through a looking glass at these things called humans, maybe they are purchased from the local starship pet shop, and used to entertain bored kids, that are tired of all their computer games!

Those poor suckers called humans only live around 80 years, in comparison, it's like the humans having hamsters! Even dogs have a better and longer life, they manage 7 years to every 1 human year! Although those humans can be nasty, if not tamed!

The life span is short, although they come in all shapes and sizes, those yanks seem to be the biggest mothers of all, with all the genetic engineering of the foods, we throw in to them.

Could it be we live in a goldfish ball, and here to be entertained, who knows, nobody does!

Those running around creating religious cults, still don't realise the god is the same god, that gave them life, Humans tend to like, sticking labels on subjects and objects, they call it learning, although the stupid buggars, don't think of all the other life on the planet, to the other life, it is meaningless. My cat told me! :lol: :P

She said, you humans are on a lower level, than us cats, that's why you only have one life, we have 9, becuase we are superior to humans. Take a look at the bees, there fighting, having wars, and pprotecting the queen, why do you think that is?

Humans are no different, there is a social structure, although it's not real, it is there for a purpose, of greed and individual gratifications, these people are amazing pets, for entertainment, you can program them to murder, rape, protect, lie, cheat, and breed like rabbits, and best of all they come in all, shapes, sizes, and colours!

Problem is they are self distructive, they ignore the warnings, so the goldfish ball, blows, up, and we have to start reprogramming all over again. There are certainly some big bugs in this system.

:P :cool:

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 09 Mar 2007 9:42 pm

Yeah but can it be aVOIDed? :P

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Postby ksl » Fri, 09 Mar 2007 9:43 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Yeah but can it be aVOIDed? :P
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: We'd make a good comedian act, me and thee! :P Don't think it can be aVOIDed, but it can be enjoyed! :D Do deep sea divers, get their tongues burnt! I'm still learning :oops:


Just thought :roll: :roll: :roll: keep an eye out for JP the predator, he's liable to highjack the thread! :shock:
Last edited by ksl on Fri, 09 Mar 2007 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: God Existance: Yes or No

Postby Plavt » Fri, 09 Mar 2007 9:52 pm

Kurozu wrote: A agnostic is someone who believes that people cannot know whether God exists or not.



The dictionary definition of agnostic is; 'who holds we know nothing outside the material world'. That is open to a number of different interpretations and I would, I think refer to more than just questioning the existence of god.

My two cents worth; all religions are man made, many things are a mystery and always will be.

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Postby Kurozu » Fri, 09 Mar 2007 11:38 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Yeah but can it be aVOIDed? :P


Since I am quite new here, I have no idea what is going on between ksl and sms? :shock: "aVOIDed"?

I thought everybody will be out at the bar drinking booze with pretty gals and forgetting stress from work? LOL....
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Postby ksl » Sat, 10 Mar 2007 12:13 am

Kurozu wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Yeah but can it be aVOIDed? :P


Since I am quite new here, I have no idea what is going on between ksl and sms? :shock: "aVOIDed"?

I thought everybody will be out at the bar drinking booze with pretty gals and forgetting stress from work? LOL....


Actually it's our friend Victor_rs area of interest! Vincent is stuck in the void I think and can't get out! :lol: SMS & myself have been there quite often and we don't see the problem of escape! You've heard the famous Nike slogan! Just do it!

Pretty girls and drinking, in my dreams! And only if they are rich! Otherwise there a pain in the butt! You see if they are rich, most give up the chase of financial insecurity and concentrate on finding a stable guy!

Those women that are poor and want to be rich, well, they're always a risk, and wanting more! It's a female gene in most that goes back to the stoneage! Although the 60's was a good time, i missed out quite a bit! Rather make love than war, any day of the week! Here's Victors link

http://www.singaporeexpats.com/forum/ftopic39477.html
Last edited by ksl on Sat, 10 Mar 2007 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 10 Mar 2007 12:33 am

Kurozu,

Do a search for posts by Victor_rs, our english butchering resident philosophical guru who is stuck within "a VOID" of his own making. :D

Just taking the Mickey that's all. The guy's too serious for his own good. We'll read about him sky-diving from the top of the Temasek Towers some day.

ksl & I? We are 2 of the 3 oldest people on this board. You are welcome to call us old coots, curmudgeons, ancients or something new. They've all been used to describe us at one point or another (or at least me anyway). I think I'm the eldest followed by ksl or strong eagle (those two are probably within a year of each other). If you are wondering, I'll be 60 later this year. (chronologically only) My average age is around 47-50.

Oh, lest I be accused of hoisting myself by my own petard (seeing I was the one who mooted this Forum in the first place) I guess I better make some contribution. :P That's for JP!

As Plavt indicated, the actual definition of an agnostic really defies being pinned down to a set of guidelines. I have considered myself an agnostic since 1960. I was a presbyterian till then. I studied religions on & off again for the next 25 years and covered most of the major and a number of the minor religions & ways of life from the Christian ones to Hinduism, Buddhism (both Chinese and Thai or Therevada if you will), Taoism, an several of the other off the wall ones. I never felt 100% in agreement with any of them. I do not say there is no god. But I am the "Doubting Thomas" as it were.

People that I have been in discussions with over the years (hundreds) have always tried to come back with "Well what if you die and find out there is a heaven and/or hell? That one is easy.

I live by my own moral code of conduct. I can say to anybody here that my code is probably equal to, if not more moral that most. I can also say that I follow my code. I am 100% true to my own beliefs. Can anybody out there reading this claim that about their own faiths? Doubtful. Is there any Catholic out there that has never taken confession and been a practicing Catholic? Doubtful. Which mean that you do not keep the faith 100%. I keep my faith in myself 100%. I don't have any doubts.

If I die, and as I currently believe, my ashes are scattered in medium where I most enjoyed my life. I will be happy. If there is a heaven and/or hell I have no fears as I also believe that if there should be a god, and he/she/whatever did not show themselves to me in a form or fashion that would let me recognize it for what it was, then, because I have lived a moral, and more importantly, non-hypocritical life. I have my doubts that I would be penalized for leading a moral life even if I did not embrace a god. I don't profess one thing and then go out and do another.

I am not an atheist. I do not say there is NO GOD. There may well be. I just do not have sufficient information that would make me believe that there is (at least in the fashion that most human seem to hold). People say to me then how did the life on earth, yadda, yadda, yadda........

Who cares? Frankly I don't give a damn. Life is too short to worry about something you have absolutely no control over as it's past. And as for the future? All the gods in the world are not going to stop insanity from killing us all at some point. So in the meantime, I try to enjoy life while trying not to take any enjoyment from somebody else to do so.

:-|

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Postby Kurozu » Sat, 10 Mar 2007 8:35 am

I see what is going on here. I guess I am the green one here.

Actually, I see the world as it is. Nothing more nothing less. There is no super natural being, there is no Easter Bunny. Miracles exist only in our mind. And luck are nothing more than random chances that exist in numbers and inanimate objects as well. Molecules, atoms, DNA, strings (string theory) ....blah...blah...blah... exist since we had proofs from scientific experiments and nuclear atomic testings. DNA contains code that can be deciphered to explain what and who we are. We can also play The Creator by changing or splicing (whatever term scientists are using) DNA code to create the perfect child in the future.

After my life's roller coaster ride, I will die, I will rot, I will disintegrate into tiny little speck of dust and I will eventually join Gaia. My soul, my conscience, my memory, my presence will be long forgetten.

If there were such thing as The Creator, then we will be living in a world just like the Movie "Matrix". Some folks said "The Creator wants us to go to Earth to enjoy the experience of life". What A big cosmic joke. Thousands of African Babies were born each day, died a couple of days later due to famine, drought, mal-nutrition, HIV etc. (makes my heart aches everytime) Why make these poor tiny souls experience more death and suffering than they can experience more love and compassion from their mother and father? Where is the compassion from God?

After all this, I still had a little bit of faith. Contradicting? Simply put, a person living on the ground has a different view than a person living on a HDB flat. A person living in a HDB flat can tell that a storm is coming from the horizon. While the person on the ground will say "I dont see the black clouds."

Nuff Said.
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 10 Mar 2007 9:29 am

Kurozu wrote:I hope Christians, Agnostic, Atheists and other religions sect will join in this forum I created and discuss more on issue "God Existance: Yes or No". Leave your comment, and please be nice.


Kurozu wrote:I see what is going on here. I guess I am the green one here.

Nuff Said.


Kurozu,

You started this thread and after 3 actual posts you are backing out? You specifically wanted input from "Christians, Agnostic, Atheists and other religions" you have gotten a few and now It's Enough? I am disappointed. What were you expecting?

Next time, if you are going to pick a heavy topic to discuss. Please be prepared to take part. :(

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Postby Kurozu » Sat, 10 Mar 2007 9:36 am

SMS. I am not backing out. haha... [-X Weekend is here, got my own business to do, family to be with........ and I am just warming up....
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Postby ksl » Sat, 10 Mar 2007 3:04 pm

Kurozu wrote:SMS. I am not backing out. haha... [-X Weekend is here, got my own business to do, family to be with........ and I am just warming up....
After my life's roller coaster ride, I will die, I will rot, I will disintegrate into tiny little speck of dust and I will eventually join Gaia. My soul, my conscience, my memory, my presence will be long forgetten.

Your body will die and rot, "ashes to ashes dust to dust", your spirit! God knows! May blow with the wind. Your soul, your coscience, memory, and presence, will live on, through family! All will remember what a hero you was, in the matrix of life & death :lol: :cool:

And with regards to science, just because someone made a name for them self, doesn't make them the best! My belief is that there are many, in the spiritual world, that are much more knowledgable about, what goes on in life and the universe, the learning process has been costly for all of them, they have all had to sacrifce, their lives, to meditation, most love all mankind, and those that achieve the ultimate, are a chosen few, with no gains in life, other than knowledge of life and the god!

To actually destroy ones ego, completely, is probably like winning the European lottery! You have to be chosen, I don't believe that random choice comes into it! I believe it's our destiny or fate, also for a reason!

That reason I thought was to be a upright and honest, loving person, although that idea, was kicked out of the window, when a life time criminal won, 11 million pound on the lottery!

I have since learnt, that negative energy should be excepted in small doses, I have good friends, that are doomed because of their chips on their shoulders, and ocassionaly I have to stop seeing them, because of the negative effect, they are aware of it, but it seems, it is also their punishment for doing wrong in life to others! I know several, that are haunted by their mistakes.

Although that is the devil inside, and the devil can be destructive to life, although if you look more closely, at it, it is the brain function, and the sufferer needs to get on the right track again.

This may also be easier said than done, chemistry within, also dictates the process, although our computers are connected to God, & the Devil

The matrix is no different, what we see is what we want to see! The world is run by money and wealth,,, the heart is not! Finding the balance is important, knowing that life is life and that we suffer, and enjoy too, if this wasn't the case, we would have no emotions..... When you feel down, you are also aware that good times can be achieved! So why stay down in the dumps.

I love with all my heart, although I am able, to change that, through the feeling of disappointment, I fight not to ponder, and understand it's better to love and let go!

It's only ego, jealousy, and the need for wanting and owning, other subjects & objects, that, makes us do the devils work, to love all, and respect all, is a gift, that takes some time to aquire, through a well balanced look at life! Complicated life too! but for a reason, i believe! No need to stay in the void, when life is so short!

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Postby 2die4 » Sat, 10 Mar 2007 9:19 pm

hey ksl, sms... you're missing victor, eh? :wink: looks like we have a new one here?

i heard a story about a little girl, 6 years old...

she was asked if she believes in God, she gave a simple, "yes" as an answer...

and when asked, "why?", she gave a very innocent answer and quite nice if i may say so, "makes my life easier" :wink:

sometimes kids have a lot more to say with such simple words...
Last edited by 2die4 on Sat, 10 Mar 2007 11:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby ksl » Sat, 10 Mar 2007 10:45 pm

2die4 wrote:hey ksl, sms... you're missing victor, eh? :wink: looks like we have a new one here?

i heard a story about a little girl, 6 years old...

she was asked if she believes in God, she gave a simple, "yes" as an answer...

and when asked, why, she gave a very innocent answer and quite nice if i may so, "makes my life easier" :wink:

sometimes kids have a lot more to say with such simple words...


Beautiful! 8-) Thats the way life should be, plain and simple! We spend so much time searching for the unsearchable, and the main thing for a healthy well balanced life, is to be like SMS, with a code of ethics, that are respectful, and honest.

I will be happy if my own 6 year old daughter can adapt these principles, which are rather challenging, when influenced by others of the same age, that maybe borderline, wrong, or just wrong. peer pressure can be quite persuasive from 5 years and up into their teens!

We may not think we are influenced by our experiences of direction in life, although we are!


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