Should US pull out of Iraq?

[Kurozu]

I hate to be the one to say this but It seems that Iraqis were dying everyday before the US decided to topple that regime. Wasn't a solution in sight then either. It would appear then that nothing has changed. (with the exception that the killings now appear on TV and include more than just Iraqis) Wonder why I never saw the gassing of the Kurds on prime time news when that happened?

Yes, of course I know my history lesson very well. Iraqis are dying everday, especially the Kurds who are discriminated everyday God knows since when.

The main concern is about the future of Iraq and the future of US presence in Iraq.

The US presence does not help at all. Instead it aggravates the situation. When someone has aggravated a hornet's nest, does a person stays to fight n control the hornets or run n cover his neck?

US has started a stupid war, the best way is to leave and assist another day. Just like the British left many colonial countries to fend for themselves during the post colonial period.

[sundaymorningstaple]

The US presence does not help at all. Instead it aggravates the situation. When someone has aggravated a hornet's nest, does a person stays to fight n control the hornets or run n cover his neck?

Seriously, I had to laugh at your analogy this time. (Not at you!) It would seem that I have to both agree and disagree depending on whether or not it's as a private individual or work related. I'm the HR & Finance Manager of the largest group of Pest Control companies in Singapore. Privately I'd say run, but as it is, I have to say "control the pests". Sure there is going to be collateral damage. There often is in pest control. Anytime you stick your nose where it's not welcome you stand the chance of being stung!

[ksl]

I am quite amazed that the forum registers 28345 users, yet we can only attract 6 people to take a vote! Something smells very fishy to me Mind you, it maybe a good representation of how wrong statistics can be

Members equal registered sign ups, Mmmm How many trolls have we? 4 or 5 X alias this and that, 28345 maybe right after all Allow % for error = 6 people amazing

[sundaymorningstaple]

Not too bad considering the majority of our registered members don't even look in this Forum nor any of the other forums below the General Forum. The biggest majority of our regulars are in the beauty, airlines, entertainment forums and for the most part of locals with a high number of Asian Expats there.

Hell, I haven't even bothered to vote. Why bother, most already know my views and it sure won't be the subject of any thesis.

[muratkorman]

Imho US should have never occupied Iraq to bring peace (!), democracy (!) and stability (!). As we see now, nothing has changed and even got worse. In the meantime many lives were lost. It is a big mess there in Iraq and it is affecting all the neighbour countries. It is the responsibility of Iraqis to stabilise and choose their way of government. It is their internal issue. With this kind of intervention, US just destroys the slight possibility of a stable government. You can't dictate Iraqis what is good for them. They will choose and face the consequences.

[huggybear]

murat korman-san

congratulations on winning the master of the obvious award. so are you then advocating the US pull out and let Iraq go into civil war? what should the world response be if a neighboring country such as Iran develops nuclear capbility and then invades Iraq? it's complicated as to how the US should proceed.

[muratkorman]

murat korman-san

congratulations on winning the master of the obvious award. so are you then advocating the US pull out and let Iraq go into civil war? what should the world response be if a neighboring country such as Iran develops nuclear capbility and then invades Iraq? it's complicated as to how the US should proceed.

It is my pleasure to get an award from you huggybear. You can always come up with some worst case scenarios. It is limited with your imagination only which brings us to the point that you could also get the famous "master of the obvious award".

I meant US should have never occupied Iraq. However they have managed to create such a mess that nobody knows what to do. As you say it is complicated to proceed. But do you really think as long as they stay in Iraq, things will get better? Look at the history of the events. There is no positive improvement, but just more death, more chaos and more confused Iraqi people who can't determine their own fate. If we wish stability, US should stop acting the World Police. For the said-to-be non-existing nuclear weapons of Saddam, all Iraq has suffered thanks to US intervention.

Why don't you trust UN? If your worst case scenario happens and I am sure you have even much more to come up, there is UN which could stabilize the civil war or to avoid an attack from Iran. Why don't you just admit that US stays there because of the possibility to control the big oil reserves? It is all about the US greed huggybear-san, this is not a humanitarian intervention. It is creating chaos and taking advantage of the situation.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Why don't you trust UN?

I am surprised you would even have to ask something like that!

[huggybear]

I meant US should have never occupied Iraq.
master of the obvious because everyone in the world agrees with you.

However they have managed to create such a mess that nobody knows what to do. As you say it is complicated to proceed. But do you really think as long as they stay in Iraq, things will get better?

That's why the poll was brought up and what the debate in the US centers around. What do we do now?

Look at the history of the events. There is no positive improvement, but just more death, more chaos and more confused Iraqi people who can't determine their own fate. If we wish stability, US should stop acting the World Police.

It's a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't. If the US doesn't intervene we get criticized for having all these resources and not sending relief workers, monetary aid, troops to stabilize a region (such as croatia, rwanda, cambodia, somalia, etc). If we do go in to try to assist it pretty much never goes correctly.

Why don't you trust UN? If your worst case scenario happens and I am sure you have even much more to come up, there is UN which could stabilize the civil war or to avoid an attack from Iran.

Great joke. had a good hearty laugh. thanks i needed that. Also, next time look to see who the composition of the UN forces, where are the bulk of the combat troops (those in the line of fire) coming from? And no, my imagination is not as active as those who sit down and plan out how to attack the US either by driving a truck into the basement of the WTC and blowing it up, or flying airplanes into the WTC.

Why don't you just admit that US stays there because of the possibility to control the big oil reserves? It is all about the US greed huggybear-san, this is not a humanitarian intervention. It is creating chaos and taking advantage of the situation.

I never said it was a humanitarian intervention. I don't know one american (educated...) that thinks it was. It's always about oil and securing the supply of oil. Every nation works to protect its interests whether it's china propping up dictatorships in Nigeria / Somalia to procure a steady supply of raw commodities, China / S. Korea propping up N. Korea by laundering their money and not wanting to deal with N. Korean refugees, France withdrawing all its presence in Rwanda without lifting a finger to help, Soviet Union invading afghanistan in a bid to gain access to a warm water port and control a trans asia oil pipeline, Britain going to war for the useless falkland islands, it's all about your national interests and protecting it.

[muratkorman]

So perhaps you may agree we are just wasting time here. It is a vicious cycle. We all disapprove of the current situation. We all blame US somehow. But we also know that US won't pull out because of oil interest. Eventhough we come up with some solution proposals, we know that it won't work as long as US occupies.

Coming to my starting point. US "should" pull out immediately. This will be the best for the world.

[sundaymorningstaple]

But doubtful it would be in the best interest in the average iraqi in the street if they are of the wrong religious branch wouldn't you say?

[muratkorman]

Could you just clarify your statement SMS? I couldn't get it.

[ksl]

Could you just clarify your statement SMS? I couldn't get it.

I think SMS is refering to the imbalance of religous population, shias and sunnis.

I would like to see the Muslim nations get involved in stabilising Iraq, although I don't believe the likes of Sadr should be allowed to take part in anything.

All gangsters, militias and war loads need to be disbanded and kept well away from Iraq, although its difficult.

The Americans and British should step back, and let the muslims sort it out, I have my doubts, that they can do it in a diplomatic way however, and will fight and squabble among themselves until another dictator is on the throne. Iran want in, they have done for many years and thats why Sadr is backed by them.

The solution give to all the muslim refugees, that are scattered around the world!

[sundaymorningstaple]

Spot on ksl. Let us not forget the kurd as well. It was them that was gassed.

[ksl]

Spot on ksl. Let us not forget the kurd as well. It was them that was gassed.

The Kurds! Yes of course, they have been persecuted from all sides for god knows how long, There must be millions of refugees from the middle east, spread around the world, including the Iranians, Iraqis, Kurds, Lebanese and Palestinians, I say give them Iraq on a plate, they all know about oppression, and I'm a believer that they are more moderate and tolerant of the western world, yet in many ways have kept their cultural identities.

I have seen that refugees are tolerant and respectful of other ethnic minorities and only wish to live peaceful and productive lives, the majority anyway.

The cleaning up of Iraq is a major problem, that should be done by Muslim Countries, whereby they could set an example of true liberal democracy, although insurgents will always be around to cause havoc and a threat to stability.

It is not difficult to see, that extreme muslim agression around the world has but one goal, and that is to conquer, the weak and establish extreme Islamic states, this must be a Muslim problem, that needs to be addressed for world stability.

But I also believe that not enough wealth in these oil rich countries, finds its way back to the populations, hence sever confrontation against rulers and the west, who are deemed the puppet leaders.