Should US pull out of Iraq?

[huggybear]

ok fine. all muslim force with french, german, and italian troops as well.

[guruvishwanath]

SMS,

I will backtrack here to explain my statement as to why I did not include Pakistan as part of the tier-1 players.

When India and Pakistan were carved in 1947, the main reason behind the carving was the contention by Md. Ali Jinnah (father and first governor general of Pakistan) that Muslims will not find a place in a Hindu dominant India. Gandhi disagreed but eventually was unable to convince Jinnah and the partition occurred. Close a million or more lives were lost due to the movement of people from both sides of the border. In one of his speeches, he said “If we want to make this great State of Pakistan happy and prosperous we should wholly and solely concentrate on the well-being of the people, and especially of the masses and the poor... you are free- you are free to go to your temples mosques or any other place of worship in this state of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion, caste or creed that has nothing to do with the business of the state... in due course of time Hindus will cease to be Hindus and Muslims will cease to Muslims- not in a religious sense for that is the personal faith of an individual- but in a political sense as citizens of one state”

[Kurozu]

I said it again.

No other countries in the world has the military capability and financial capability to stay in Iraq.

Parkistan, India, Indonesia,......whatever countries put together do not have the ability to stay in Iraq. The US "occupation" in Iraq has already proven that.

1. 60billion dollars per year
2. 100,000 ~ 200,000 soldiers
3. unknown numbers of guns, tanks, aircrafts, ships, medics. etc.......
4. food, water, ammunition....etc......

How in the world can these countries provide that? It is unrealistic.

[ksl]

I said it again.

No other countries in the world has the military capability and financial capability to stay in Iraq.

Parkistan, India, Indonesia,......whatever countries put together do not have the ability to stay in Iraq. The US "occupation" in Iraq has already proven that.

1. 60billion dollars per year
2. 100,000 ~ 200,000 soldiers
3. unknown numbers of guns, tanks, aircrafts, ships, medics. etc.......
4. food, water, ammunition....etc......

How in the world can these countries provide that? It is unrealistic.

Don't you think the Iraqi oil will be contributing to the war effort?

I was amazed at how they shipped 4 billion $ to Iraq, on pallets, stuck it on the plane and off it went, never to be seen again!

Money is not a problem, its not spent on the troops Try the contractors doing the rebuilding and security?

It is also a manufacturing industry, that keeps the wheels turning too, unfortunately!

[huggybear]

i think you're approaching this iraq problem incorrectly.

the question is not "pull out or stay?"

the question is what is the ultimate end goal with iraq. it's obviously now a mess. If our end goal is really to begin a democratic process and try to install a capitalism regime, etc. then honestly we need to send a massive force to iraq to stabilize it and remain there for years (history has shown time and time again you need a massive force to take over a country).

if the end goal was to simply depose hussein and quickly transfer power to the iraqis, then that was accomplished...get the hell out, and let their civil war figure things out...and the american force can remain just to provide enough disincentive to iran not to invade.

either way bush royally screwed up. surprised we could consider impeaching clinton for having a blow job and potentially lying about it. but bush lies to force a war and he comes out unscathed. absolutely amazing.

[Kurozu]

If the Iraqis behave and stop blowing the pipe first. Then money can be used for the re-construction, rebuilding efforts, then the military.

There are only a few countries who can commit more than 5000 soldiers.
So, to sum it up to 200,000 soldiers we need a max of 40 countries. No, it will not work.

Somebody should impeach Georgie Bush.

To huggybear,
Yeah, the topic had gone into something different. I will focus on one issue at a time.

[huggybear]

just send 20,000 french troops and 20,000 german trooops. in about 3 months everyone will be building nice cars during the day and in the evening drunk off wine and everyone will eat good cheese.

[Kurozu]

I still think US should withdraw right now. It is the lesser of two evil.

Clinton got a blow job and nearly tasted impeachment.
Georgie got a war and is not spank by impeachment.

Btw, did you notice that Georgie had a photo shooting with the Miami Heats teams. Georgie tried to bounce the basketball, it did not bounce back up. He made a fool of himself again. It was hiliarious........

[ksl]

I still think US should withdraw right now. It is the lesser of two evil.

Clinton got a blow job and nearly tasted impeachment.
Georgie got a war and is not spank by impeachment.

Btw, did you notice that Georgie had a photo shooting with the Miami Heats teams. Georgie tried to bounce the basketball, it did not bounce back up. He made a fool of himself again. It was hiliarious........

God bless him, he tries his best

Did I lose a post, I thought, I made comments about George Bush being a puppet of his daddy! He invaded because daddy told him to! "Georgy boy, if ya wan rrr's name ta go down in history, you have to take him out eh the game boy! Go get him boyo!

[sundaymorningstaple]

Did I lose a post, I thought, I made comments about George Bush being a puppet of his daddy! He invaded because daddy told him to! "Georgy boy, if ya wan rrr's name ta go down in history, you have to take him out eh the game boy! Go get him boyo!

And I though I was losing it!

You made that post in the "VOID" that I aVOID!

[ksl]

Did I lose a post, I thought, I made comments about George Bush being a puppet of his daddy! He invaded because daddy told him to! "Georgy boy, if ya wan rrr's name ta go down in history, you have to take him out eh the game boy! Go get him boyo!

And I though I was losing it!

You made that post in the "VOID" that I aVOID!

In true Texas fashion not! Now where's that beaver gone

[Kurozu]

SMS and KSL,

It seems that Iraqis are dying everyday, and there is no solution in sight. I will sit and pray

I hope the Democrat will win this coming election even though I think they are just as useless as the Republican.

[sundaymorningstaple]

SMS and KSL,

It seems that Iraqis are dying everyday, and there is no solution in sight. I will sit and pray

I hope the Democrat will win this coming election even though I think they are just as useless as the Republican.

Kurozu,

I hate to be the one to say this but It seems that Iraqis were dying everyday before the US decided to topple that regime. Wasn't a solution in sight then either. It would appear then that nothing has changed. (with the exception that the killings now appear on TV and include more than just Iraqis) Wonder why I never saw the gassing of the Kurds on prime time news when that happened?

As far as the Democrats winning, That's a sure thing in the upcoming election. No matter who it is. The backlash against Bush has put paid to the Republican party for 4 years anyway. After that the US and the world will see that having a Democrat in the White House is absolutely no different. What we have to remember is that the Oil & Construction companies are running the country. If you will read your history books on the construction company responsible for Cam Ron Bay and Ton Sun Nhut airbase in VN you would know that back then Brown & Root was controlled by Democrat leaders. Surprise, Surprise! Now Brown & Root Kellogg, et al is controlled by Republican shareholders.

The problem is that the entire world is run by Petroleum. Until we find a "viable" alternative it will continue and it will continue to get worse and the fields are used up even with new technology allowing them to extract more oil out of old abandoned wells that were no longer producing 20 to 40 years ago.

What is the difference between GWB and LBJ? Both are Texans, both have /had heavy links to Oil & Construction. Both got us engaged in a war we couldn't win. Both lost (or will lose) the presidency because of an unpopular war.

The only difference........ One was a democrat and one was a Republican.

Oh, by the way, I think praying won't help when shi'ites and sunni's are killing each other. They are both praying to the same god and still killing each other. Kinda like the Protestants and Catholics in Ireland don't you think?

[huggybear]

yes the world is run by petroleum...
nice response SMS...
on a further note..interesting we tried to invade Iran (kermit roosevelt's involvement in the overthrow of the popular iranian government to install the US friendly but locally hated Shah of Iran is the handbook the CIA has been following for 30 years now...) after they nationalized the oil industry...but when the Saudi's did it we didn't touch them. why? because the Saudis gave all the contracts to build the pipelines and wells to the US.

also interesting...
bush is so tied in to the oil interests...even tho EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE SCIENTIFIC community agrees there is global warming caused by human activity, that he instead pursues a policy for 8 years saying there is no such thing. I guess when god drew up his blueprint for planet earth (intelligent design) he cranked up the heat also? As for the UN report saying that global warming was almost certainly caused by human activity and not saying that human activity definiately caused global warming? That was because China doesn't want to stop building coal firing plants and they balked at the language.

further more
interesting that Bush is now proposing legislation to force automakers to make more fuel efficient cars and forcing them to research alternative fuels such as cars running on ethanol, et cetera. How come auto companies have to bear this burden but not oil companies?

sorry for the rant.

[Kurozu]

Bush does not know what he is doing, period!

Global warming, Iraq War, War on terror, Hurricane Karina, Libby Case, Inarticulate Speeches, Habeas Corpus, Guantanamo Bay, Foreign Policy ........blah blah......I have never seen so much negative news coming from a US president before.

Back to oil and Iraq. Bush's (or Rummy's) intention is to use the Iraq's oil for reconstruction effort, and later for the military expenses (both Iraq and US military). Another of his great idea is to import Iraq oil to the states. However, under this sectarian war and the terrorist guerilla war, oil pipeline are disconnected, facilities are destroyed, and the oil companies cant even set up their own office without being blown up. What a mess! Obviously, oil is the reason for this war, and every other things that make up the policy in US, China, Russia.......the world.