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Head hunters vs. web sites vs. direct approach.

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SouthKiwi
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Head hunters vs. web sites vs. direct approach.

Postby SouthKiwi » Sun, 18 Feb 2007 10:06 am

Can anybody comment on use of head hunters vs. web sites vs. direct approach.

Obviously, networking and connections are great for identifying opportunities and getting an introduction – but from overseas, you are restricted.

I get the feeling that head hunters and web site submissions are a long shot.

Anybody had experience of locating here first and then looking for positions ? At least you are able to interview in person and a Singapore HP number is better than overseas.

Thanks

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2die4
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Postby 2die4 » Tue, 20 Feb 2007 8:22 am

let me share to you my experience...

I came here in SG as a tourist and was only given 2 weeks (probably because i traveled alone and u know what they think about Filipinas travelling alone) My cousin used to work here in the IT line and his friends accomodated me during my first week here in SG. during that time i submitted my CV to different companies and i searched everything from the newspaper, internet and recommendations of friends...

before my two week-pass expired i applied for an extension and was given 1 month, i have been called for a number of interviews since then...

i didn't use the help of any agent nor head hunting whatsoever i was on my own... during my last week i was hired by a Human Resource Consultancy...

and now as for someone who works in a Human Resource Consultancy let me tell you how it works...

for placement, usually there are no positions available, yet. only when a client asks for people to fill a certain position that's when the HRP team tries to put people in place. so it's gonna be a long process...

for headhunting,a client asks the company for people to fill in certain positions and the HRP team looks in the database and if no one qualifies for the position they place Ads and headhunt for people. This one takes a shorter time.

but the hard part there is you're going to compete with a lot of people...

the convenience of that is you don't have to work double time to look for a job...

what's your line of work by the way? Maybe I can help... however our company is not really into Placement and recruitment of entry levels. We do this thing for Middle-Top Positions in Engineering, Accounting and IT line.
"Quod me nutruit, me destruit..."

SouthKiwi
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Postby SouthKiwi » Tue, 20 Feb 2007 12:40 pm

Hi 2die4

Thanks for your feedback. Upon reflection, I guess the question was a bit open ended as a qualified reply would depend on the background, experience, field and unfortunately, your nationality/race to a certain extent.

My frustration is I have never had a problem with employment – in fact, I have got every position I have applied for. Working through agents abstracts your contact with the decision maker, so you never have opportunity to challenge, close an objection/hurdle or get direct feedback.

My question was aligned to high end IT sales/pre-sales/solution design/product manager field.

Thks

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sundaymorningstaple
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 20 Feb 2007 9:24 pm

2die4 wrote:for headhunting,a client asks the company for people to fill in certain positions and the HRP team looks in the database and if no one qualifies for the position they place Ads and headhunt for people.


This is NOT what a true Headhunter does. You are speaking of the local variety. A true headhunter poaches people from other companies. Usually from competitors to your client's company. This is why the international firms here use "Researchers" to find out who is working where. It's only the local players who have joined international search firms locally who resort to advertising. If they are any good they don't need the newspapers. I've been in the industry for 14 years and only know a handful of "Local's" who I would even partially qualify as real "Headhunters". While I specialize in the Oil & Gas Industries, I will venture into other heavy civil or infrastructure works. I do not venture into areas in which I do not have the expertise. Here, most ersatz headhunters will do anything and end up being an expert in none of them. Why do I do mainly O & G? I spent 17 years working in that industry, both in the US and throughout SE Asia. While I have some knowledge in IT, I leave that, Banking, Finance and Telecoms and the local building industry to those with the wherewithal to handle that. (also a lot bigger money in the banking sector).

It sounds like you couldn't find a job either and because someone offered you a position in an agency you took it. I don't blame you. You have to get your foot in the door first. It is also a good way to form networks to grab that position you are really looking for! ;) I've hired a few as well over the years. It's great for having a way into and around the 'peens exit permits and so forth. My Philippines Engineering database is pretty good. :)

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brifusg
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Postby brifusg » Wed, 21 Feb 2007 12:01 am

Great post, sms.

You mentioned that the headhunters often 'hunt' ppl from competitors and I know this happened. However, I just wonder how this could happen since these ppl usually are at high position and I believe their contract should state that they could not join their employer's competitor for certain period of time... Perhaps you can enlighten me a bit if it is not so sensitive?

thanks

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 21 Feb 2007 12:53 am

Generally, a non-competitive clause cannot be fully enforced unless it is a case of someone responsible for proprietary methods, patents, or equipment. Or has the ability to take this info somewhere else. Non-compete clauses have been upheld here but Singapore generally takes a slightly different viewpoint than most countries (just like everything else almost). For the most part they feel that you cannot prevent a person from working in their given profession.

Here is a read that says it much better than I: (It's a PDF file)

http://www.atmdlaw.com/mediacentre/pdfs ... ndrain.pdf

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2die4
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Postby 2die4 » Wed, 21 Feb 2007 6:56 am

that's correct sms... someone from the company does that as well, forgot to mention it... the headhunter approaches a person from a certain company discreetly and pirates this person...
"Quod me nutruit, me destruit..."

SouthKiwi
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Postby SouthKiwi » Wed, 21 Feb 2007 1:10 pm

I should also point out that I was, in context, referring to "researchers" i.e. people who are commissioned to find appropriate resources vs. true poaching i.e. head hunters. Unfortunately, overseas - the two are generalized and referred to under the common banner of head hunters.

Still – question remains. Are researchers a valid way of gaining employment. If they like you, acknowledge your credentials, make a recommendation . . . what are chances the recommendation will be accepted. Do organizations have accounts with specific researchers or will you find several researchers representing same opportunities?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 21 Feb 2007 1:42 pm

Again, this is a mixed bag here. Some of the MNC do keep a few of the Int'l Search Firms on retainers but a lot operate on salvage rates (e.g., no cure no pay). Probably the majority of the better Search firms take a partial upfront non-refundable fee (which is basically a retainer) per position (this is probably the most popular with the better Headhunters here) as it covers their operational costs and leaves the profit margin for the successful placement. Other clients use the "more is better method" and the worst (and usually lowest paying) use the shotgun method and fire their needs to a whole bevy of agencies. Course those agencies also use the same shotgun method in their submissions in hopes that 1 out of dozens may be suitable. (I never submit more than 3 max and usually only 1 or 2 normally).

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Postby SouthKiwi » Wed, 21 Feb 2007 2:39 pm

Thanks sundaymorningstaple

Would you know which organizations are generally aligned to IT recruitment ie high end sales/pre-sales/product manager/solution design ?

Thks

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Postby jpatokal » Wed, 21 Feb 2007 9:50 pm

Some general wisdom on headhunters vs websites vs direct approach:

http://www.asktheheadhunter.com/

...written by a guy who is a headhunter himself, and thinks that headhunters suck unless you know how to use 'em. (And he thinks the big job-hunting websites are even worse.)
Vaguely heretical thoughts on travel technology at Gyrovague

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Postby cchunwah » Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:48 pm

2die4 wrote:that's correct sms... someone from the company does that as well, forgot to mention it... the headhunter approaches a person from a certain company discreetly and pirates this person...


Hi 2die4. I am currently looking for a switch of company. Wondering if you can help me, since you are a headhunter specialising in Engineering. I am currently a project manager with electrical / control background.

Hope you can give me a PM me, as I am too junior to PM others.

Thanks!

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sundaymorningstaple
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 17 Jul 2008 11:42 am

Don't know if you will get a reply as it's been 9 months since she's made a post here........

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Postby cchunwah » Fri, 18 Jul 2008 12:26 am

Thanks sundaymorningstaple! I didnt notice that. Its alright. Anyone has any advice? THanks in advance.


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