Integrated Resort

[ksl]

With the IR in force, and due to finish by 2010, I presume house prices may even double, along with rents.

Is there any research data available, that anyone knows of, that supports the idea of properties, doubling in price?

Of course specific area location will improve more than others, but my guess is that, once the resot is finished, the actual tourist numbers will boom, making this place a small goldmine for those owning properties and renting out, providing they give a very good service.

I cannot see private property prices slowing down, and HDB, which have been relatively stable, I think will get a boost in the next couple of years, for those, that have finished there subsidised period,

So it is a good time now, i believe to get on the property train, or miss it. what's your opinions on this?

[EADG]

know this is not really what you're asking about, but my thoughts are that since better housing value was one reason for moving here from Japan, where I still prefer in many though not all ways

with the recent rent increases I'm now paying near-Tokyo rental prices, and the effect of the scenario you paint of even higher rents has on me is to get my butt back to Japan before that happens......

some of us make considerable life, cultural, intellectual and career sacrifices to be in a relative backwater like Singapore, and we do so willingly but there will be a break-even point as cost was one of those attractions

I personally know some people with 50% rent increases who are thinking this way, and there seem to be quite a few people with 50% increases

[ksl]

know this is not really what you're asking about, but my thoughts are that since better housing value was one reason for moving here from Japan, where I still prefer in many though not all ways, and with the recent increases I'm now paying near-Tokyo rental prices, the effect the scenario you painted has on me is get my butt back to Japan before that happens......

Yes I just imagine, the impact, it's going to be difficult, also for MNC to pay the subsidies of many too.

I think because we have business here, it is in our best interest to purchase a small place.

What is japan like, climate wise is and to live there?

[EADG]

What is japan like, climate wise is and to live there?

don't get me started.....

4 distinct seasons / hot humid summer, long rainy season

beautiful country / ugly cities

very nice, polite people / inhuman personal interactions

higher pay, higher expenses for many things / excellent service, quality

the crowds / (no pro for this!)

generally open and accpeting of foreingers / you'll always be a foreinger, even with a Japanese wife and Japanese language skills

the women are fantastic - cultured, respectful, fun, stylish, beautiful, well-mannered, well-educated / many don't speak English

taxis are plentiful, with excellent drivers who know the roads and don't play the shift timings to their advantage / the cost is much higher

the food! / (no con for this)

overall it's difficult but rewarding place to live for those who like it and can adapt to it

to do this justice I'd really have to give a full pro/con list as there are probably equal points for both, but that would be hijacking the thread, which is a worthy topic

but from personal experience I would not give up one of the 14 years I spent there for anything else

[sundaymorningstaple]

ksl,

Maybe I just hit it on the head. I purchased an HDB 5 room flat in Jan '99 on the resale market. That was the absolute lowest point in the property market in the wake of the financial meltdown of ''97-'98. After that it started rising again. While we lost some and gained some due to differing factors like subsequent recessionary periods and the opening of the NE line (Serangoon Station about a 15-20 walk or 5 minutes by any of three different buses). As our flat is reasonably good size 121 sq mtrs 4 bedroom unit I think we will be in good shape if the market rises again. I'm only about 20K down at the moment. The finish of the resorts will just about coincide with my retirement I hope. Keeping the fingers crossed needless to say (both ways - wouldn't mind seeing the Sing$ get a bit stronger around that time as well. Maybe back to 1.35 where it was before the crash!

[ksl]

ksl,

Maybe I just hit it on the head. I purchased an HDB 5 room flat in Jan '99 on the resale market. That was the absolute lowest point in the property market in the wake of the financial meltdown of ''97-'98. After that it started rising again. While we lost some and gained some due to differing factors like subsequent recessionary periods and the opening of the NE line (Serangoon Station about a 15-20 walk or 5 minutes by any of three different buses). As our flat is reasonably good size 121 sq mtrs 4 bedroom unit I think we will be in good shape if the market rises again. I'm only about 20K down at the moment. The finish of the resorts will just about coincide with my retirement I hope. Keeping the fingers crossed needless to say (both ways - wouldn't mind seeing the Sing$ get a bit stronger around that time as well. Maybe back to 1.35 where it was before the crash!

Yes I Believe you made a good choice at the time, I have seen a 3 bedroom, on the 7th and am comparing prices, theres another one asking 20,000 more, although its on the 3rd.

I'm sure you will more than recoup your money, possibly now! We have decided, to buy because it saves alot of hassle, on rent contracts, and the rental money is just wasted now.

Older apartments seem to be bigger, with good opportunities I believe, becuase they have, been stable for such a long time now, with more talent arriving, more will be encouraged to get PR and hence the ball will start rolling, after 4 years, the tourism, will pick up and I guess Singapore may become a prime destination for holidays.

Although private housing may hit the roof, I guess the government must try to stop the speculation of HDB, It would be wrong if the government stopped free market movement, and they may do.

However I see it no different to government housing in other Countries, housing estates have always been the cheapest, because of the social working class, that can afford them and the right to buy policy and subsidies, although once the house has seen it's subsidy agreement through, it can go for resale.

Landlords start to buy them up, for rental, I had to dump my mothers house because of all the anti-social behaviour, losing a great deal of money, today the same property as risen in price 10 fold in 5 years.

I believe the same can easy happen here, although the government may step in to stop speculation, once the ball starts rolling, it will rise, significantly, by market forces, that is to say, tourism will be up, visitors will be up and immigration will also be up.

But I think expats maybe seen going down or living in HDB, landlords and private would be silly not to try to purchase HDB here and now for investment and rental possibilities.

There are probably also loop holes, for families to aquire more than one property, and this is an ideal investment opportunity even if it, is done through family, although research of the housing is required to identify the estates, which will rise alot, and those that will rise a little, I will aquire what I can afford, while I can.

In fact, just us discussing this thread, will surely have an impact on the market for you! Hope we don't get in trouble for pushing the prices up! heeeeeeeeeee! You know it only takes a seed, to grow a plant!

Just found this at 7.17. am

Read about Singapore commercial rents are forecast to rise 60% in the next 18 months http://www.amberlamb.com/

[./.]

KSL, I'll have to keep this really short today...

Housing prices will indeed increase in time, given inflation, population increase, dwindling space etc, which of course we all know, so we don't need to go into that.

The jury is still out on whether the IR will bring in as much money as is hoped, and consistently. Vegas has the US market, Macau the mainland China and HK market, Monaco has Europe...and so on...

The Singapore IR is banking on Indonesia, India, China and other countries to the north of us, Vietnam, Thailand etc. We have no ready market.

This is a huge point of contention with many people in this industry. Is the IR really all it is made out to be? Will it be able to bring in as much money as planned, year afer year?

Of course, tourism will go up in the short term. For how long nobody knows.

Housing prices increasing as a direct result of the IR is exactly what the speculators want. This is happening and will continue to happen in a small way for sometime. This is also expected to be balanced by fewer people investing in property and migrating. This is a bigger bubble than any previous property bubble in Asia...the real money, i.e. balanced, justified growth in property price - is in Shanghai / Beijing and other China towns, any 'A/B/' class Indian city, Korea, etc.

I wish I could go into it in much more detail, too much work and no time. I know this is very spotty, but just fill in the blanks...

[Grim Reaper]

Property is and always has bene a long term investment. Even more so in a stable economic and political environment as this tiny little red dot is (and due to its small size, property is scarce, thus even more worth).

The main reason why the wealthy Indonesians buy all the condos here, they now own more than half of all places in Singapore.

Last week the to be built Marina Bay, in the future overlooking the IR, had record prices of close to 3000sgd per square foot, meaning a 3 million $ condo of only 1000 sqf...

Having said this, I agree with the above poster, let's see what happens with the IR, for now it is all purely speculative.

Sms, I am afraid your flat will not directly be influenced by the IR speculations though...

As said, property is a looooong term investment.

As for the increases in rent, a little bit more effort will still give you a good place for a reasonable price, don't buy the hype so easily.

[sundaymorningstaple]

GR,

Point taken, though with the farm already paid for I'm only really looking to recoup my investment. If I can do that (Principle + Interest) then already I've made over 100K on the property after 7 years.

[Grim Reaper]

That sounds feasible...

You bought at a good time, now try sell at the right time!

[ksl]

I am afraid your flat will not directly be influenced by the IR speculations though...

This is pretty obvious, SMS unless your up to something we don't know about, like an underground flip the coin centre in your shower, all naked hee! hee!

I reckon your apartment is well in profit today, and if commercial property is expected to move 60% in 18 moth, I believe 15 to 20% on residential is feasible, based on the recruitment of talent alone.

With PR's losing some benefits, and rentals moving up, it makes sense to invest the rental income, right!

[jpatokal]

I think property in Singapore is highly bubblicious(tm) right now. The bull run will probably keep on going for a while longer, but it's a matter of time until it goes pop.

[./.]

This is a bigger bubble than any previous property bubble in Asia...

Wrong choice of word.

This is a riskier bubble than any previous property bubble in Asia...

[ksl]

This is a bigger bubble than any previous property bubble in Asia...

Wrong choice of word.

This is a riskier bubble than any previous property bubble in Asia...

Well I guess your right, I researched quite a bit of info, which is quite interesting, especially on the private condo area, in which many have dropped 35 to 40% in price, although the new developments are still taking premium price, they can only go down! if demand slackens, and it will, soon as they are all sold in one development.

Many are going to get their fingers burnt again, signs also of people moving from larger to smaller units.

The trend seems to be more foreigners arriving and purchasing, due to the government recruitment drive, there are also signs of PR's buying in the HDB area, I guess the pressure will be on for a year or two.

The fact is there are still many empty units out there, and they will eventually have to drop prices on the condo's that are left empty. So this is a volatile market of screwing the consumer while the going is good, before cutting the prices on the empty condo's., to cut costs.

This to me is the wrong kind of property strategy, which will eventually backfire, based on greed and irrational behaviour more than anything.