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exemption from national service

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Global Citizen
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Postby Global Citizen » Sun, 02 Sep 2007 7:57 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote: That and the powers that be here are always a bit shortsighted as well. That's what caused the graying population so quickly (the myopic stop at 1 policy in '81).



Actually I don't recall any stop at 1 policy in Singapore; more like 2.
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 02 Sep 2007 9:30 pm

I stand corrected. Obviously one or two, it's still a bit myopic isn't it. If everybody stopped at 2 then there would still be negative population growth thanks to infant mortality, killings, accidental deaths and accidents. I wasn't here yet so I can only go by what I had been told. (Should have googled it like a just did so I didn't end up with:
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Maybe the teller was mixing it up with PRC stop at one policy. I arrived in '82 after thousands had already been suckered into sterilization for a measly $5000 SGD!

Now the son is trying his best to right the father's failed social engineering programs.

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Postby Global Citizen » Sun, 02 Sep 2007 9:53 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote: I stand corrected. Now the son is trying his best to right the father's failed social engineering programs.


It takes a big man to accept that he's made an error. :) Happy (belated now) Birthday again big boy in case you missed it elsewhere. :wink:

Too right about the son. Speaking of sons, years ago I received a letter from Mindef(?) about my son serving NS although he's US born but was PR until we left and never renewed his PR again when he was eight.

That baffled me somewhat and I wrote them back advising them of the situation. I wasn't aware that foreign born children of a citizen who acquire PR are also subject to to NS. Had we continued to live here and it was required, he surely would have served but was he even liable?
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 02 Sep 2007 10:57 pm

Apparently, one has to formally renounce their PR in that situation (just more of their double standards). If you leave the country and your re-entry permit expires you can lose your PR status involuntarily, but you son apparently has to formally renounce because he still has something they (You know who) want. It's BS to me due to their double standard. Yet they cry foul when somebody else does it don't they. :mad:

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Postby Global Citizen » Mon, 03 Sep 2007 1:38 am

Thanks SMS.
One man's meat is another's poison.

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Postby ericyung88 » Tue, 04 Sep 2007 9:22 am

Global Citizen wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:

That baffled me somewhat and I wrote them back advising them of the situation. I wasn't aware that foreign born children of a citizen who acquire PR are also subject to to NS. Had we continued to live here and it was required, he surely would have served but was he even liable?


My case is similar -- my sons born in HK and never lived in Singapore. When I approached ICA last week, they said that my sons are citizen until 21 (i.e. must serve NS). When I told them that my whole family is immigrating to another country, they told me that my sons will NEVER be able to enter Singapore again in their life if they renounce citizenship even with approved deferment of NS.

Did you check with ICA whether your sons' status is citizen or PR?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 04 Sep 2007 7:40 pm

The following taken from ICA's website:

National Service Liability
Under the Enlistment Act, all male Singapore Citizens and Permanent Residents (PRs) are liable to register for National Service (NS) upon reaching 16 1/2 years old. They are required to serve 2 years of full-time NS at 18 years old, followed by 40 days of Operationally Ready National Service per year till the age of 50 years (for officers) or 40 years (for other ranks).

Main applicants who are granted PR status under the first generation Professionals/Technical Personnel and Skilled Workers (PTS) Scheme or the Investor Scheme are exempted from NS. Male children who are granted PR status under their parents' sponsorship are liable for NS upon reaching 16 1/2 years old.

NS-liable PRs are expected to serve NS. Should they renounce or lose their PR status without serving or completing full-time NS, this would have an adverse impact on any application by them to work or study in Singapore.

Male ex-Singapore Citizens and ex-Singapore Permanent Residents who are granted Singapore PR status are liable to be called up for NS regardless of the type of PR status they are granted. For further enquires, please write to:


Hope this helps,

sms

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Postby Global Citizen » Wed, 05 Sep 2007 8:57 pm

ericyung88 wrote:

My case is similar -- my sons born in HK and never lived in Singapore. When I approached ICA last week, they said that my sons are citizen until 21 (i.e. must serve NS). When I told them that my whole family is immigrating to another country, they told me that my sons will NEVER be able to enter Singapore again in their life if they renounce citizenship even with approved deferment of NS.

Did you check with ICA whether your sons' status is citizen or PR?


My son never acquired S'porean citizenship only PR and we left when he was 8. I never enquired about his status because if you don't renew PR after 2 years as it was then, it's automatically revoked as I understand it and I never heard from them again.

Based on SMS's quote from the website, my understanding is that it may affect his chances of becoming PR in the future should he decide to seek employment here. He's finished college and is not entertaining any ideas about working here but should this change, I guess we'll cross the bridge when we come to it. However I do not think because of his particular circumstances which I've outlined above, there would be any adverse recourse should he decide to visit as a tourist.
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Postby jpatokal » Wed, 05 Sep 2007 10:27 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Curious though, do you have access to a chip reader that can read everything that's on a biometric passport? Be pretty cool to have one of those as we really have no idea what is 'really' contained in them (there might even been hidden files like MS has that only are viewable with the right password/logon procedure).

Actually, biometric passports used worldwide standards (duh, otherwise nobody could read 'em), and the data encoded is one or more of the following:

- Face
- Fingerprints
- Iris scan
- Digital version of the data in the old-style scannable OCR strip

At present, the US (the driver behind this silliness) mandates only a picture of your face. Fingerprints are being added by a few countries; iris recognition is not, AFAIK, used by anybody yet.
Vaguely heretical thoughts on travel technology at Gyrovague

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 06 Sep 2007 9:44 am

It's the AFAIK that I worry about. :wink: (What AFAIK means is "You don't know")

The stuff that NSA has been doing for the past 30 years or so has surprised a lot of folks as well. Nobody knew it was even possible. :o

(duh, otherwise nobody could read 'em)


As my response was hypothetical and stated as such..........

Seems DEA agents and Police Agencies from many many countries can access the Interpol databases from around the world. Wonder how they all got the access codes?

Sorry, but this time I think your response might have been a tad unwarrented.....

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Postby jpatokal » Thu, 06 Sep 2007 8:59 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:It's the AFAIK that I worry about. :wink: (What AFAIK means is "You don't know")

Well, I'm fairly sure I'd notice if somebody tried to get my retinal imprints, especially as I applied for a new biometric passport just today and wasn't asked to hand over anything more sinister than a picture...

Sorry, but this time I think your response might have been a tad unwarrented.....

Sure, there are oodles of information about you in all sorts of databases all over the world, especially here in Singapore where "privacy" is considered a joke (except when it comes to publishing how much rich people earn or where they got their money from!). But why would anybody want to encode it into a passport, of all places? If the police in country A want to get your data from country B, they can request access directly and get it immediately, instead of waiting for you to show up toting a passport with a whopping 32K bytes of info, most of that already used for the picture.
Vaguely heretical thoughts on travel technology at Gyrovague

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 06 Sep 2007 9:20 pm

Sometimes you are so :roll: ........

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searching for answer

Postby adi.color » Fri, 07 Sep 2007 3:22 am

few questions needed:

1. Can a person register for NS before reaching the age of 16 1/2 years. (letsay @ 5years old?)

2. In order to register for NS what is needed? IC?

3. What is the age limit to register for NS. (can a person register @ 20 years of age?)

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Postby Plavt » Fri, 07 Sep 2007 4:44 am

jpatokal wrote:If the police in country A want to get your data from country B, they can request access directly and get it immediately.


What information and what database?

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NS obligation

Postby Sg_mom » Sat, 08 Sep 2007 6:16 am

I am greatly interested in this thread as in a year's time, I'll have to decide whether my son will do NS or opt to renounce his citizenship. My son left Singapore with us since he was 8 months old and now he is turning 12. There is really no ties for him to want to return to Singapore.

However, as we are still in the process of getting our green card, he'll need to keep his passport current for legal status. I wrote to the authority a couple of times and they have been so vague and apprehensive about the issue of renewing his passport stating that having a passport means he has enjoyed priviliges in Singapore and may have to return to serve NS!

I like to find out if there is anyone here with a situation like mine who have 'enjoyed' a Singapore passport and was rejected renunciation due to having a passport? In my opinion, it'll be is quite unbelievable if it can happen but knowing how NOT transparent Singapore can be, I better find out more!


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