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exemption from national service

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Mad Scientist
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Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 18 Jan 2010 3:10 am

Marsdog

I have some question if you can filled me in as we are all here trying to help one way or another.

Your Quote
I'm currently a Singapore PR but my native passport has expired. I can't get it renewed because I have NS liability in my native country.
Q: How long ago has it been expired ?

Your Quote
First, will this affect my application to gain SG citizenship?
Q. How long ago have you acquired PR.
Q. Have you submitted your SG Citizenship application and when was that ?

Your Quote
And, I'm turning 26 this year and I wonder if I will be enlisted for NS if I get my citizenship. I've been exempted as a PR as a first-generation, so called.
Q.Did you get a written letter stating you are exempted from NS if you gain citizenship ?

Let me know and we see how to help you

Cheers

MS

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Postby marsdog » Mon, 18 Jan 2010 11:22 am

Hey, MS.

My passport has been expired since June 2009. I acquired my PR in April 2009 but I haven't submitted my citizenship application. Also, I did not get a letter that says I'll be exempted from NS if I gain citizenship.

Thanks for trying to help!
:)

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Postby Mad Scientist » Tue, 19 Jan 2010 3:14 am

Marsdog

You are in a quandary the way I see it. You need that passport for the right to travel as a Taiwanese citizen since you do not hold any other citizenship.
Citizenship application takes times in SG again and you are in a spot too.
I believe you have to transfer your PR visas once the passport has expired
Unless you are prepared not to travel until you get your SG citizenship I do not see any other way other than to return and serve.
Most countries do not give citizenship easily and set of rules have to be adhered too and varies from one country to another.
No easy way out on this one. ':???:'

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Postby x9200 » Tue, 19 Jan 2010 4:17 am

On more practical ground, what kind of repercussions do you actually expect for an attempt of renewing your passport? To be arrested in SG and extradited?

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Re: Revised check list for Exemption to Singapore NS

Postby nuie » Tue, 26 Jan 2010 11:44 am

[quote="PHK"]I am not an attorney, this is not legal advice, but if you would like to know-

Exemption from Singapore NS critical information (Revised):


1. Get you son's out of Singapore before their 11th birthday (age 13 is unconfirmed). These ages are recommended by the U.S. Embassy Singapore as a guide. MinDef advises there is no specific age, however, each young man is handled on a case-by-case basis and it is just safer to observe these ages so that your child is judged to have left Singapore at a young enough age.

a. Immediately document the departure date and new foreign domicile for each individual by mailing in the ICA change of address form for persons residing overseas: http://www.ica.gov.sg/data/resources/do ... orm_A1.pdf

2. On or before the 13th birthday send a registered letter, with postcard return receipt for yourself, to ICA and MinDef declaring intention to renounce child's citizenship at age 21. Include a photocopy of your child’s birth certificate, citizenship certificate (if applicable), proof of foreign school enrollment / attendance, proof of departure date from Singapore. The addresses for this notification are as follows:

Central Manpower Base
3 Depot Road, #02-07
Singapore 109680
Tel# +65-6373-3132

ICA Renunciation Unit
10 Kallang Road, #06-00
Singapore 208718
Tel# +65-6391-6316

3. Avoid the complications of applying for or retaining a Singapore Passport as a Dual Citizen. If your son’s need to physically enter, exit or live in Singapore then they can do so with their foreign passport too. Simply go to the ICA 6th floor Citizenship office with your child’s foreign passport and proof of Singapore citizenship and have them place a “Right of Entry”

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Re: Revised check list for Exemption to Singapore NS

Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 27 Jan 2010 3:36 am

Hey Nuie
Your Question
My son has just turned 13.
We have acquired Australian citizenship and would like to renonce Singapore citizenship.

We emailed CMPB and they gave us an application form for our son's NS deferment till 21 pending renunciation. At the same time, they have advised that we apply for an exit permit online for him since he is 13.

With the exit permit, if we want to be overseas for more than 2 years, we need to furnish a bond. As we do not intend to return to Singapore any more, we are not prepared to post a bond, in case it does not come back to us.

I am wondering if you had to post a bond too?
Did anyone get your bond refunded when your son renounces at 21?
Or did you apply for an exit permit for less than 2 years and at the end of 2 years, apply for another 2 years?

Reply
To share my experience, I had a mixed bag on my two boys with Mindef and ICA. The older one was given all the way to 21 on his exit permit although he was well over 16 when he got his foreign citizenship. The second one has to renew thru internet every two years or what was advise is One Year 364 days. More than that you have to furnish the $$$$.
My assumption on why different standard is the change in the law was done in Feb 2006 . As such my eldest got it done before that piano man screw up and the change in the law in the aftermath of the piano man saga.
ICA and Mindef are two different kettle of fish so to speak. If you are asked by Mindef go for the second plan and I think you will be alright
Try not to be too honest and trustworthy with them by putting $$$$ with them as bond. The money can be put in good use for yourself somewhere else. You might never know the change in law in the future might jeopardise the return of your money.
If everything goes to custard which I doubt so if you follow the protocol, at least you have the money by your side to enjoy !!
':wink:'

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Postby nuie » Wed, 27 Jan 2010 5:42 pm

Thank you, Mad Scientist!

With the 1 year 364 days Exit Permit option that you went through with your 2nd son, did you have to renew it again when that expires?
If so, did you have to post a bond to renew for another 1 year 364 days?

I most definitely do not want to part with my hard-earned money if I can help it.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Thu, 28 Jan 2010 1:23 am

nuie wrote:Thank you, Mad Scientist!

With the 1 year 364 days Exit Permit option that you went through with your 2nd son, did you have to renew it again when that expires?
If so, did you have to post a bond to renew for another 1 year 364 days?

I most definitely do not want to part with my hard-earned money if I can help it.


Yes , you renew every 2 years until 21 and no, I did not post any bond. This is what I did. As long as you did not renew the child passport after 13, you should be allow to go this way until 21.Try not to go back to Singapore if possible after that.Though I have to caution you that they take every case on its merit. AND PLEASE do not even tell them that you have so much and so much in Singapore like what one of our friends did. He got trapped and son has to return to do the NS for no apparent reason although they follow the protocols to the T. NEED TO KNOW BASIS ONLY

Good Luck ':wink:'

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Postby christoscy » Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:55 am

I d like to ask an NS related question

I have obtained PR status 6 months ago , 2nd generation as my wife is a Singapore PR. I personally work abroad and never worked or studied in SIngapore

As expected i ve been called to register for NS. Given the fact that i served 26 long months of unpaid NS in my country of origin at 17, what are the odd that i might have to go thru it again here for 2 years. Does Singapore MINDEF acknowledges NS served in one's country of origin
I ll try been nicer if you try been smarter!!!

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 08 Feb 2010 1:59 pm

Actually you have received your PR on family ties? If that is the case, then you are a 1st Gen, not a 2nd Gen PR. As such, being on the family ties scheme, you are liable for NS. Now, depending on your age, you may or may not have to serve. It wouldn't matter whether or not you served in your own country (that is of no concern of the Singapore gahmen unless it is a country hostile to Singapore - of which I don't think there are any). If you are above the age of 26-28 years old, the odds are you will be given a waiver, but you still have to register and you could still be called up for active duty as well. On of those things.....

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Foreign Born child

Postby fashun_diva » Tue, 20 Apr 2010 11:00 pm

I am foreign citizen + Singapore PR and my husband is Singaporean.
I'm pregnant with a boy and am trying to figure a way so that my son isn't forced to do NS against his will.

If I give birth overseas and my child takes my citizenship (and I get him a foreign passport), would this help circumvent the whole NS issue when we come back to Singapore as his birth was never registered here?

If so, what would my child's immigration status be here? Would he be on a dependants pass-?

Any advice to share?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 20 Apr 2010 11:44 pm

http://www.overseassingaporean.sg/cms/i ... questions/

27. I am a Singapore Citizen. Can I not apply Singapore Citizenship for my child born overseas? What are the types of immigration facilities I can apply for my child to visit Singapore or reside in Singapore permanently?

If you have not registered your child to be a Singapore Citizen, you may apply for Singapore Permanent Residence or a Long Term Social Visit Pass for him/her so that he/she can stay with you in Singapore.

Parents who wish to apply for Singapore Citizenship for their child born overseas are encouraged to register their child at the Immigration & Checkpoints Authority (ICA) within one year of the child’s birth.

28. My 25-year-old son has renounced his Singapore Citizenship. Can he continue to study or reside in Singapore permanently?

If he wishes to reside in Singapore permanently, he may apply for Singapore Permanent Residence. He can also apply to work, study or stay in Singapore. His applications will be subject to the prevailing immigration rules and regulations.

However, renouncing his Singapore Citizenship without serving or completing his full-time National Service liability will have an adverse impact on his application to work, study or Permanent Residence in Singapore.

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Re: Foreign Born child

Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 21 Apr 2010 5:20 am

fashun_diva wrote:I am foreign citizen + Singapore PR and my husband is Singaporean.
I'm pregnant with a boy and am trying to figure a way so that my son isn't forced to do NS against his will.

If I give birth overseas and my child takes my citizenship (and I get him a foreign passport), would this help circumvent the whole NS issue when we come back to Singapore as his birth was never registered here?
Answer : Yes if you did not register his birth here in SG.ICA will not have any info on this. His foreign passport will reflect your son foreign country birth place

If so, what would my child's immigration status be here? Would he be on a dependants pass-?

Answer:
1. If / Since he is holding a foreign passport , he will be treated like all other visitor to SG under a social visit permit / visa.
2. He cannot be on dependent pass as dependent pass is for SPR , EP and the likes. Your husband is a Sger. You will need to submit a marriage cert which will proof your husband status to ICA to apply for dependent pass.
3. Alternatively register your son birth with ICA , 7 floor or thru SG Mission overseas within one year after he is born as he is eligible for a SG Citizenship under a minor of a parent from SG descent which your husband is one. Go to www.ica.gov.sg for this info
4. Once you register have a stamp on his foreign passport on the second floor for RIGHT OF ENTRY to SG on his passport. This is transferable.
5. This will allow your child to be a dual citizen of SG and foreign until the age 21 where he has to pledge oath of allegiance of which country he wants to hold SG or foreign
6. He will not be subjected to NS as he did not own a SG PASSPORT. You do not apply for SG Passport as it will relate to NS complication
7. He does NOT need a dependent pass as he is free to travel in and out of SG until 21 where he has to decide which citizenship he wants to hold as he has the Right of Entry Stamped on his foreign passport. Holding on to SG means NS and losing foreign one. Vice Versa
8. He can benefit SG schooling with subsidy if you intent to have his early education here by doing this

This is the only route that you can ring fence but there is a time limit of 21 years of age until Gahmen moves the goalpost again which I cannot answer you when it will happen.

Hope this helps

MS

Any advice to share?
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby Tau Beta » Fri, 23 Apr 2010 3:10 am

Mad Scientist wrote:Marsdog

You are in a quandary the way I see it. You need that passport for the right to travel as a Taiwanese citizen since you do not hold any other citizenship.
Citizenship application takes times in SG again and you are in a spot too.
I believe you have to transfer your PR visas once the passport has expired
Unless you are prepared not to travel until you get your SG citizenship I do not see any other way other than to return and serve.
Most countries do not give citizenship easily and set of rules have to be adhered too and varies from one country to another.
No easy way out on this one. ':???:'


Hey MS! How's it going?

Just wondering.... what do you mean by "transfer your PR visa once the pasport has expired"? what is a PR visa? Something very new to me.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Fri, 23 Apr 2010 5:13 am

Tau Beta wrote:
Mad Scientist wrote:Marsdog

You are in a quandary the way I see it. You need that passport for the right to travel as a Taiwanese citizen since you do not hold any other citizenship.
Citizenship application takes times in SG again and you are in a spot too.
I believe you have to transfer your PR visas once the passport has expired
Unless you are prepared not to travel until you get your SG citizenship I do not see any other way other than to return and serve.
Most countries do not give citizenship easily and set of rules have to be adhered too and varies from one country to another.
No easy way out on this one. ':???:'


Hey MS! How's it going?

Just wondering.... what do you mean by "transfer your PR visa once the pasport has expired"? what is a PR visa? Something very new to me.


I am well !!! Yourself ????

Some countries, have the Permanent Residence Permit and Reentry Permit Glued onto the passport. So if your passport expired and you got a new one, you have to transfer those sticker to the new passport.
For SG, I am not sure at this moment, but you need to inform ICA of your new passport

:)
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!


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