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exemption from national service

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 16 Oct 2009 9:10 am

twotribez,

You have also re-enforced what I've been on about since the beginning. Parents often do what 'they' thing is right based on their personal feelings instead of thinking of what is of the most benefit to the child. This is why my son will be doing NS after he finished NAFA. At least, if he renounces after NS his future is still open and the networks he will form will probably be of assistance even from a global perspective in today's shrunken world. It would be a shame to deny him the right to possibly work here just because of some parent's misguided reasoning.

Thanks for posting a first-hand account. I hope our readers will take heed of this.

sms

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Postby twotribez » Fri, 16 Oct 2009 10:08 am

x9200 wrote:Twotribez, you probably got to the point majority of people nowadays will never reach. You understood that accepting another country citizenship should also include loyalty and commitment. For vast majority it is just a mechanical procedure to improve their comfort of living or social status.


Hi there, well, when I accepted the Australian citizenship at 8 years old, I hardly knew what I was doing... It is hard to stay loyal to a country when you are not a first class citizen.

I mean Australia is a great place but in the corporate workplace, we are slightly disadvantaged, no matter how you look at it. It is a generalisation but I believe it is the truth.

If the SG govt ever gives me a chance, I would return to SG for good, Raise my kids there and send them to NS, I definitely would like them to be bilingual.

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Postby x9200 » Fri, 16 Oct 2009 11:45 am

twotribez wrote:Hi there, well, when I accepted the Australian citizenship at 8 years old, I hardly knew what I was doing...

I did not aim at you. Just general observation.
twotribez wrote:It is hard to stay loyal to a country when you are not a first class citizen.
I mean Australia is a great place but in the corporate workplace, we are slightly disadvantaged, no matter how you look at it. It is a generalisation but I believe it is the truth.

I wonder how much of this is due to the fact that you are aware of such stereotypes and feel because of this insecure/less confident?

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Postby twotribez » Fri, 16 Oct 2009 12:32 pm

x9200 wrote:
twotribez wrote:Hi there, well, when I accepted the Australian citizenship at 8 years old, I hardly knew what I was doing...

I did not aim at you. Just general observation.
twotribez wrote:It is hard to stay loyal to a country when you are not a first class citizen.
I mean Australia is a great place but in the corporate workplace, we are slightly disadvantaged, no matter how you look at it. It is a generalisation but I believe it is the truth.

I wonder how much of this is due to the fact that you are aware of such stereotypes and feel because of this insecure/less confident?


haha no I know you were not aiming at me., Well I am actually doing quite well here in Australia, I don't lack any confidence at all. But I do see favourtism in a certain way for some people which is usually in upper upper management.

I am not complaining about my life here, I have had it good, just merely stating that my options have been limited because of not serving NS.

no matter what there will always be stereotypes.

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Postby HakFromOz » Thu, 22 Oct 2009 1:41 pm

twotribez,
its certainly heartbreaking to hear that you would still fight for Spore in time of war, which makes me think of my son, wonder if he has that kind of loyalty. He lives in Oz since 6 yo, and he is prepared to return to serve NS in 2010. As a parent who have been through NS in the 80's, I know for certain that NS at that time is very tough. With Sporeans living globally, just wonder how many overseas Spore kids actually go back and serve NS, and wonder how hey react to a totally different culture. Any out there who have returned to serve NS, or kids who have returned to serve NS, please share your experience.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 22 Oct 2009 2:06 pm

Hak,

Give you kid some props. Kids are a lot more flexible than the parents are. It's one of the hallmarks of being young, the ability to flex and conform to new and different sets of stimuli. They are usually non-plussed about the whole deal unless they have other sociological problems outside the norms. Most will just deal with it. I find parents get too worked up about things which normally are just a perception. Of all the people on here who have done NS, it's only a very small fraction who don't feel a lot of good was gained out of the experience.

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Postby econoMIC » Thu, 22 Oct 2009 2:08 pm

HakFromOz wrote:twotribez,
its certainly heartbreaking to hear that you would still fight for Spore in time of war, which makes me think of my son, wonder if he has that kind of loyalty. He lives in Oz since 6 yo, and he is prepared to return to serve NS in 2010. As a parent who have been through NS in the 80's, I know for certain that NS at that time is very tough. With Sporeans living globally, just wonder how many overseas Spore kids actually go back and serve NS, and wonder how hey react to a totally different culture. Any out there who have returned to serve NS, or kids who have returned to serve NS, please share your experience.


Many children do return to serve and the government does not let them off the hook easily. At the Singapore Day in London this year there was a huge NS stand and they engaged with children from a young age onwards.
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Postby puppet » Fri, 20 Nov 2009 7:56 pm

Hi everybody.

Please help me out with my problem.

My father is a ex-singaporean/canadian citizen, mother is Canadian/Iranian citizen/Singaporean citizen (She might have given up either Iranian or Singapore)

I was born in Singapore, got singaporean and Canadian citizenship but no IC. Left 2 months after i turned 11.

I skipped NS.

My father says all i have to do is renounce my Singapore citizenship at 21 and visit as a Canadian, will this pass?

How are my chances looking?

If slim... how can i better it? Thanks!

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 20 Nov 2009 8:39 pm

Did you have a valid Singapore Passport that was valid after the age of 11? (pretty obvious if you left Singapore after you were eleven you would have needed a valid one to leave the country). If you did, then you will have been deemed to have enjoyed the socio-economic benefits of Singapore. With that in mind, your parents have shafted you royally. While you can come back into Singapore on a Canadian Passport, it will be easy to check up on you as they are in the process of linking the 6 major databases of the Government together into a massive super-database. That way, all they have to do is look at your Canadian passport to see where & when you were born. If it says you were born in Singapore, a quick query of the database for births on that date will through out, what, maybe half a dozen to a dozen at most? Get rid of half of them as the will be female. Once that has been established it will be easy to narrow down the identity of those remaining who are currently male & registered in Singapore, or if they have finished their NS obligation, or died, or immigrated legally. Those that are left surely could be identified if they are one of the 3 main races. The rest? gonna be damn few as Singapore isn't that big. How many birth/day do you reckon they have even now?

So, you can come back but if you are picked up it's gonna be rough with considerable jail time as they are out to make examples of deserters. And just think, you only have your parents to blame for not following protocol. They didn't use too much common sense when they took you out of the country and are still not showing too much common sense now. Be sure to thank them, yeah? :-|

sms

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just an observation

Postby nakatago » Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:00 pm

Hi,

I noticed that some people seem to be in disbelief that they cannot avoid NS.

If I may be so bold and give a quick and dirty summary of NS exemption,

If you've been a citizen or PR at least once--even if renounced (or changed citizenship), the only way you'll avoid NS is if:

* you're first generation PR
* you're female
* never, ever step into Singapore again. EVER.

And there's no way of avoiding being found out that you've been/you're a citizen/PR of Singapore unless you change identities.

To those with more expertise in this area, your thoughts please.

Thank you very much.

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Postby puppet » Sat, 21 Nov 2009 4:27 pm

my friend is a PR who doesn't need to serve. matter fact he was born in Canada, moved to singapore when he was 1 year old as a PR. He can currently visit as much as he wants

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Postby econoMIC » Sat, 21 Nov 2009 4:39 pm

puppet wrote:my friend is a PR who doesn't need to serve. matter fact he was born in Canada, moved to singapore when he was 1 year old as a PR. He can currently visit as much as he wants


Your friend will be in for a nasty surprise then. Unless he got an official exemption for whatever reason (handicapped...) there is no reason why he doesn't need to serve and it is just a matter of time until they catch him. Then it is jailhouse rock for him.
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Postby DavidTeam » Thu, 26 Nov 2009 6:17 pm

PHK wrote:chnkyriceboi,

My son was born in New York and has dual citizenship too. It is important to keep up with the laws, nothing we write here is legal advice, we are not attorney's, but I commend you at your age at having found this topic to assist you.

Excellent job on not having a valid Singapore Passport, collecting the Singapore Pink Identity Card or staying in Singapore past age 11. May I now suggest the following, only if it has not already been done, much of it has been posted earlier, have your parents assist you if needed:

1. Declare your intention to renounce citizenship now: send a registered letter, with postcard return receipt for yourself, to ICA and MinDef declaring intention to renounce child's citizenship at age 21. Include a photocopy of your child’s birth certificate, citizenship certificate (if applicable), proof of foreign school enrollment / attendance, proof of departure date from Singapore along with a copy of every page of the Singapore and Foreign Passport. The addresses for this notification are as follows:

Central Manpower Base
3 Depot Road, #02-07
Singapore 109680
Tel# +65-6373-3132

ICA Renunciation Unit
10 Kallang Road, #06-00
Singapore 208718
Tel# +65-6391-6316

2. Simultaneously apply on line for an exit permit now (even though you do not have a valid Singapore Passport and you already left Singapore) so that you come into compliance with their intentionally obscure regulations.

3. My son's MinDef reply letter indicated that we will not be required to post a bond, I resigned my Singapore PR and my wife resigned her Singapore Citizenship already, each case is handled individually but please get the ball rolling immediately. I will pm you the name of a Singapore attorney that you may wish to retain immediately.

There really should be no reason why someone under your circumstances should have to waist 2.5 years of their life (after the first 3 months of NS training it is all about squeezing free labor out of you anyway). Good luck young man!




HI, PK
I have a son age 18 and stay and study in Kuala Lumpur since on his 4 years and study International School in KL, and holding Singapore passport and he intend to go OZ for futher study on next year
Since last years Mindef call and he visit back singapore every 3 months shown the exit permit.

1)He apply thro the Talyor college for the OZ university .
and 2 days ago get the letter of offer from University on the next years March , I intend to let him go , question is if I apply for Deferment, I think Mindef will not allow. what I can do with this.

2)He have been call up for medical check up next months, can I apply for deferment?

2)I am holding Singapore passport so for the 2 children(1 boy and 1 girls) and If I apply for derferment, do you think I can do without any bond, since he left Singapore on 4 years old,

3)If I can not get the derferment, I thinking to get lawyer help, can you PM the lawyer

Thnak you

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Postby taxico » Sat, 05 Dec 2009 12:38 pm

DavidTeam wrote:I have a son age 18 and stay and study in Kuala Lumpur since on his 4 years and study International School in KL, and holding Singapore passport and he intend to go OZ for futher study on next year
Since last years Mindef call and he visit back singapore every 3 months shown the exit permit.

1)He apply thro the Talyor college for the OZ university .
and 2 days ago get the letter of offer from University on the next years March , I intend to let him go , question is if I apply for Deferment, I think Mindef will not allow. what I can do with this.

2)He have been call up for medical check up next months, can I apply for deferment?

2)I am holding Singapore passport so for the 2 children(1 boy and 1 girls) and If I apply for derferment, do you think I can do without any bond, since he left Singapore on 4 years old,

3)If I can not get the derferment, I thinking to get lawyer help, can you PM the lawyer
[/b]


it's unlikely your son will get a long-enough deferment period to complete his university degree. he might be able to study for a year or two, at most before mindef starts saying NO DICE!

you cannot technically "defer" his medical check up. i recommend he brings along all his medical records and just go for it.

a bond is usually required for overseas study as an incentive for the liable child to return and complete his NS. it has nothing to do with wherther or not the parent is a singapore citizen.

no lawyer can help your son get a 3 or 4 year deferment. end of story!

i recommend he completes his NS before he goes to taylor->uni (melb?)
Aut viam ad caelum inveniam aut faciam

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Postby puppet » Sun, 06 Dec 2009 6:06 pm

okay... so i've come to terms that i might have to serve ns even though it wasn't my choice to. How much will the penalty be?

Jail time?
What kind of jail? Maximum or minimum security? Or military jail?
Fine?

Or just simply 2 years of serving?


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