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exemption from national service

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jpatokal
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Postby jpatokal » Mon, 21 Sep 2009 7:49 pm

taxico wrote:write a testy letter in, or better, get a lawyer to write a letter on their behalf. there is no way a parent can be charged if they have not yet "assist" their 15 year old minor in defaulting. let the mindef complain machine roll its way around.

in fact, since this boy is a singapore citizen, there will be some minister or MP that he will be able to approach to represent him and make sure that interviewer who has made such remarks get heavily censured, or at minimum, 10 strokes of the cane!

In the unlikely chance that you're serious, you have a remarkably rosy view of the accountability of Singapore's bureaucracy :o

PHK wrote:You may wish to know that if a child is born in Singapore then the law requires the kid to be registered as a Singapore Citizen if both parents hold Singapore PR or if one parent has Singapore Citizenship. You can not even refuse to take it that way on the birth certificate, it is mandated.

I'm going to call bullshit on this. Constitution of Singapore, Part X, sec. 121:

Citizenship by birth
121. —(1) Subject to this Article, every person born in Singapore after 16th September 1963 shall be a citizen of Singapore by birth.

(2) A person shall not be a citizen of Singapore by virtue of clause (1) if at the time of his birth —

(c) neither of his parents was a citizen of Singapore.

So, no, your kid will not magically turn Singaporean unless at least one of his parents is one as well.
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Postby taxico » Mon, 21 Sep 2009 8:25 pm

jpatokal wrote:
taxico wrote:write a testy letter in, or better, get a lawyer to write a letter on their behalf. there is no way a parent can be charged if they have not yet "assist" their 15 year old minor in defaulting. let the mindef complain machine roll its way around.

in fact, since this boy is a singapore citizen, there will be some minister or MP that he will be able to approach to represent him and make sure that interviewer who has made such remarks get heavily censured, or at minimum, 10 strokes of the cane!

In the unlikely chance that you're serious, you have a remarkably rosy view of the accountability of Singapore's bureaucracy :o


alright, i'll admit it: the second part is wishful thinking of my part. :roll:

but i'm absolutely certain the first would result in some form of apology and possible clarification by a senior officer when channeled through the proper avenues, AND provided the scenario was indeed as described.

especially when there's the tape they can refer to...

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Birth Registration

Postby PHK » Mon, 21 Sep 2009 8:36 pm

jpatokal,

I am not trying to BS anyone, just trying to assist people.

Why does the kid have to be Singaporean if the parent does not want it?
In December 2008 I accompanied a relative, (newborn boy's father American with and wife Singaporean), to the birth registration at KK Women's & Children's Hospital and they insisted on the child being registered as a Singapore citizen first despite objections from the father

Anyone else here having the same problem... I will be forwarding them this link you posted. I am glad we are finally touching on this birth registration subject as I thought it was a lost cause in Singapore. Thanks.

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Re: Birth Registration

Postby taxico » Mon, 21 Sep 2009 8:43 pm

PHK wrote:in December 2008 I accompanied a relative, (newborn boy's father American and wife Singaporean), to the birth registration at KK Women's & Children's Hospital and did not see it that way and insisted on the child being registered as a Singapore citizen first.


probably because the mom's singaporean... but what were their plans regarding the boy's future (re: NS)?

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Postby PHK » Mon, 21 Sep 2009 9:09 pm

They will leave Singapore when the assignment is over in another 2-3 years. I figure they got at least a decade to get out and avoid NS you agree...

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Postby taxico » Tue, 22 Sep 2009 3:27 pm

i was under the impression that so long as one parent (esp the dad) is not singaporean, the child need not be registered with the local authorities.

instead shouldn't the birth should be registered with the local US embassy to get the paperwork sorted out...? (birth cert, SS card, passport, yada)

and i had always presumed it was wise to (enter and) reside in singapore on a foreign passport if the parents wanted to their son to "avoid" NS.

no singapore birth cert = no singapore benefits isn't it? (it makes no difference whether said "benefits" are enjoyed or not)

oh well. i don't know anymore.

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Postby PHK » Tue, 22 Sep 2009 3:35 pm

http://singapore.usembassy.gov/birth_abroad.html

As per the American Embassy Singapore, you MUST first register the child's birth locally... no way around it. They were not concerned with getting a baby bonus, etc. from Singapore at all.

Also, I am sure the father entered Singapore on his American passport and the mother has no choice but to use her Singapore passport.

The newborn get's his consular report of birth and US Passport. To get him out of Singapore they can save the S$80 for a Singapore passport as any dual minor citizen can then get the "Right of Entry" stamp by producing the birth certificate and foreign passport to the ICA Citizenship section on the 6th floor. ICA will also give a dual minor citizen the stamp in the foreign passport even if they already have a Singapore passport too.

You can bet your money that I gave him my list of 9 check list items for the long road to exemption from Singapore NS so his son does not have to serve NS (unless he wants to).

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Postby taxico » Tue, 22 Sep 2009 4:14 pm

PHK wrote:As per the American Embassy Singapore, you MUST first register the child's birth locally... no way around it. They were not concerned with getting a baby bonus, etc. from Singapore at all.


i never knew that... i wasn't even thinking about the baby bonus, but that it's important to avoid getting an NRIC number!

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 22 Sep 2009 8:36 pm

Taxico, the baby, once given a Singapore Birth Certificate (nowdays) already has his NRIC number. It's the same as the Birth Certificate registration number (only the prefix letter is changed from a T to an S). What's important is the the child never gets an Singapore Passport OR has the NRIC 'issued' to him.

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Postby taxico » Wed, 23 Sep 2009 6:21 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Taxico, the baby, once given a Singapore Birth Certificate (nowdays) already has his NRIC number. It's the same as the Birth Certificate registration number (only the prefix letter is changed from a T to an S). What's important is the the child never gets an Singapore Passport OR has the NRIC 'issued' to him.


i equated not registering birth with sing authorities with not getting singapore passport/NRIC issued i think. my bad, and you've clarified that.

and yo sunday, i see you're posting more again! how was yo holiday?

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Re: Birth Registration

Postby jpatokal » Wed, 23 Sep 2009 5:34 pm

PHK wrote:I am not trying to BS anyone, just trying to assist people.

So do you still think the offspring of two PRs must or even can be registered as citizen?

In December 2008 I accompanied a relative, (newborn boy's father American with and wife Singaporean), to the birth registration at KK Women's & Children's Hospital and they insisted on the child being registered as a Singapore citizen first despite objections from the father

That's because one of the parents is a Singaporean, and the way I read it, the Constitution does indeed require them to register such a child born in Sg as a Sg citizen.
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Postby PHK » Thu, 24 Sep 2009 5:21 pm

jpatokal,

I not know and I do not even care. I am here in this forumn for "Exemption from Singapore National Service" issues only.

Thank you and have a nice day.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 24 Sep 2009 10:22 pm

Hey Taxico! I'm flying out of BWI tomorrow morning at 9am - will be back in Singers Midnight Saturday night. Hols were not long enough! But the crabs were good! :mrgreen:

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Postby twotribez » Fri, 16 Oct 2009 7:20 am

Hello everyone,

Been trying to do some research and came across this forum. I am an ex-singaporean and just wanted to share my views.

For those who are trying to avoid NS for their children, please think about their future carefully. I will just share my experience.

I was born in Singapore and emigrated to Australia when I was 8 years old around 1986. A lot of people seem to not know what to do in this situation. My SG Passport expired 2 years later and my parents never renewed it. I received and Australian citizenship and this was made known to the Singapore govt. We went through the proper channels of getting me an exit permit and registering me for NS at 16. As I did not enjoy any socio-economic benefits we did not need to pay a bond.

My NS was deferred till 21. I was 2 years in Uni during that time and just needed 1 more year to complete my degree. A subsequent deferment request was denied. Then came the hardest decision, my parents said better renounce and finish uni, they didn;t want my education interrupted. Being still not so mature I didn;t really think about the consequences. So I renounced.

Now as I almost went back to singapore to see family every year and even sudied in an International School in Singapore, I still felt Singapore was always somehow, home to me.

I think renuncing was the biggest mistake of my life. I now cannot work in Singapore. Have applied for working visa there and have been rejected with no explanation but I believe it is due to me not serving NS. My younger brother did not finish Uni thus my dad asked him to go back to server, which he did, and is now working for my father. He has also renounced since serving but has been granted working visa with no dramas.

I haven't given up as yet trying to see if I can work in Singapore, a few years back I actually asked if I could serve, but was rejected as I was no longer a singaporean citizen which makes sense. It just makes me very sad that they let a lot of other foreigners in to work so easily and who probably have no loyalty at all to Singapore. At least I have ties which still show that at least I am loyal to my brith country. Decisions made at a young age in Singapore can have profound repurcusions. I regret it deeply and have to say it is a turning point in my life.

I urge all parents to think carefully about their child before they go ahead and make the decision for them so early. NS is not that bad, in todays age, I believe it will really help in maturing the kids these days who all seem to be more and more pampered.

Even now living so much of my life in Australia, I'd still rather fight for Singapore in a war.. even though I have been labelled as an ex-singaporean.

Thank for reading...

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Postby x9200 » Fri, 16 Oct 2009 8:45 am

Twotribez, you probably got to the point majority of people nowadays will never reach. You understood that accepting another country citizenship should also include loyalty and commitment. For vast majority it is just a mechanical procedure to improve their comfort of living or social status.


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