PHK wrote:I think if me and my wife were emotionally connected to Singapore, wanted to retire there, and explained everything to our son he too would sacrifice his 2 precious years in life too in Singapore NS.
at the time my parents had not yet decided if they would be retiring in singapore. the world was their oyster as they had done very well for themselves, and singapore was part of their success.
for me, it was an entirely different situation: as our tradition dictates, it made no difference to me whether or not my parents lived 20 minutes or 20 hours away.
however drawing close to NS, i'd spent almost a decade in singapore. i didn't get beat up as much as i would have if i were back in the states; all my good memories were here. i even learned to speak lousy mandarin here!
i knew i was a "stayer" before my parents made their decision. i harbor no ill-will towards anyone who wanted to leave because ultimately it's their choice. but if they wanted to leave simply because of NS... that is just irresponsible.
it makes no difference whether one was state dependent or not (there's no such thing in singapore anyway), for the longest time anyone who's ever planned to live in singapore would have known about the conscription of its citizens.
PHK wrote:The parents concerned that were recently bullied in an in-person interview at MinDef is as follows: Both parents were Indian passport holders with Singapore PR and their son was born in Singapore as a citizen. The parents never became Singaporeans themselves and the whole family immigrated to the U.S. while he was in kindergarten. Before their son turned 11 they were all U.S. Citizens.
This party never sent the letter indicating intention to renounce citizenship but they did send in a renunciation form to ICA, along with the parents renunciation, that was returned to them and they were advised to wait until he was 21. The kid is 15 now, has the prerequisite exit permit and with the day to apply for deferment being so close, they walked into MinDef personally while on vacation to resolve the matter.
okay. their son was born in singapore and his birth registered, making him a citizen (i presume). the parents were also singapore citizens (at some point) and were allowed into the US and eventually got naturalized as americans because of that.
they sought to do the same renunciation for their child but couldn't: he was advised to wait until he turned 21 before renouncing his citizenship. to the best of my recollection, this is normal because all singapore citizens can only renounce their citizenship at aged 21.
perhaps craftily planned that way by the government so as to ensure the majority of males would have to complete NS or be held liable for NS before they are well educated enough to obtain residency elsewhere. (who can blame the govt??)
HOWEVER, his parents were under no pressure to make him a singapore citizen. why would his parents not have made him an indian national when other options were available? i'd bet it was them hedging their bets at that point in time.
i presume the boy never returned to singapore since until recently for the said-interview? and that he returned using his american passport? if he does not have a singapore passport, why would he need an exit permit, having been away for the past 10 years?
how did the singapore government even track that poor boy down? there's plenty of gaps here. if he did not leave singapore for the US on his mom's passport (possibly singapore passport?), that means he has his own.
while they were in the states achieving their american dream, him, if not all 3, were under the protection of the republic of singapore. i know that is not much, but those are considered benefits.
PHK wrote:
This is where the story gets ugly. The 15 year old boy, a legal minor, was interviewed in a separate videoed room from the parents and the end result was the officer alluding to the father that he could now be charged as a parent too for assisting a NS deserter, if his son does not serve.
i cannot speak for how mindef does their interviews or how interviewers are trained in conducting these sessions.
if the case is indeed as such; the interview was videotaped, so his parents should do what everybody does in singapore: complain.
write a testy letter in, or better, get a lawyer to write a letter on their behalf. there is no way a parent can be charged if they have not yet "assist" their 15 year old minor in defaulting. let the mindef complain machine roll its way around.
in fact, since this boy is a singapore citizen, there will be some minister or MP that he will be able to approach to represent him and make sure that interviewer who has made such remarks get heavily censured, or at minimum, 10 strokes of the cane!
but let me make it quite clear: if that child's father had been rude and non-compliant during the interview, i can see why such threats may have been proffered.
there is no getting around it. the child is a singapore citizen. like many other situations listed on this forum, he's been deemed to have enjoyed "socio-economic benefits" and cannot renounce his citizenship until he's 21.
PHK wrote:
The parents tried to contact an attorney here in Singapore, the climate of willing lawyers has changed a bit, not all Americans all rich either, and thus made the decision to allow his son to serve when he graduated high school in the U.S.
israel, taiwan, thailand (sorta), korea... the list goes on; singapore is not unique in this respect.
no attorney would have been able to ensure his child would get out of his NS liabilities. this is an impossible task. he's a singapore citizen and he has a duty to the state.
PHK wrote:Perhaps they have a case to fight this further, I do not see how they will ever benefit from their son serving as they have severed all ties, and while they have been so obedient there will some people out there that truly benefited from Singapore socio-economically that will not serve and be classified as an NS deserter.
unless his son has never returned to singapore shortly after his birth, your comments would not be fair. the boy would have already enjoyed medical benefits as a baby (vaccines, hospitals, etc).
you were annoyed at the system because of a recount of the interview by an indignant father, who may or may not have deserved what was allegedly said/construed as a threat.
i find the child's parent most irresponsible, and would dare say that while caught up in the situation (separate rooms, videotaped interviews) he had verbally insisted on precluding the possibility of his son being drafted for NS, among many other things.
this is not whether or not the family will benefit from having the boy serve NS. the national service law applies to everyone. they are no exception.
read my first post (which you commented on) for what i think about parents who have not thought things through, and it appears that they have merely used singapore as a stepping stone to the united states (plenty of people do that).
they deserve at most an apology from mindef and nothing more. you should not feel the least bit of anything for them, nor waste your time.
