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exemption from national service

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PHK
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Attn: IGWT

Postby PHK » Sun, 01 Mar 2009 11:36 am

3. I suggest you call MinDef on the phone or email them as they are very keen and try to assist. However, do not make the mistake of visiting them in person as they separate you from your child and take sworn statements from both of you to lock you into him serving, etc.


IGWT,

I think you will find the staff at MinDef, while single-minded in their focus, rather useful for such information as the bond, etc. Pick up the phone and call them at the number I gave in the previous postings and first they will tell you that each case is handled on an individual basis. My son, while still too young will not require the bond, etc.

I have known people NOT to have renewed their son's Singapore passport and somehow delayed/forgotten about the bond and still had their son's exempt. Then there are others who dutifully renewed the son's passport every 2 years, some stupidly even traveled to Singapore to collect the Pink identity card, signed the bond without fail and found themselves not to be exempt.

The biggest mistake you made is not being fully informed and renewing his Singapore passport even though USCIS does not even require him to have a current passport if he stays in the US under PR (green) card and does not travel outside the US. The suggestions here, not legal advice, is invaluable and you should hire the right attorney to expedite the American naturalization and then legal counsel in Singapore too. If you think this is going to be expensive, then try ignorance.

You can not change the past but you can navigate the future. My golden rule is try to follow the law as much as possible, no matter how frustrating they make it, because they can even make it a crime just to assist you son, that you brought into this world, in evading Singapore NS. At least by following the law, and heeding the suggestions we have given, you have a leg to stand on and possibly win the exemption.

My son is in the same position as yours except that he was American born, (I am still worried) I want him to visit his grandparents and family in Singapore in the future, and I have been following the advice and learning from this forum that I am sure is monitored by the Singapore Internal Security Bureau. So be careful and God Speed to all... and let us all learn from each other too.

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Postby lonelyman » Sun, 08 Mar 2009 9:34 am

I want legal advice on my son issue.

Who can introduce lawyer to me?

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Postby Holyguacamole » Wed, 15 Apr 2009 5:15 pm

It seems to me that having a Singapore passport and attending local schools are considered benefits or prvileges judging by the threads of the discussion.

If my sons have been travelling on US passports from day one, have no Singapore IC (except birth certificate or naturalisation paper)and attended a couple of years of local schools, would that be considered having enjoyed "the" benefits ?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 16 Apr 2009 9:15 am

Holyguacamole wrote:It seems to me that having a Singapore passport and attending local schools are considered benefits or prvileges judging by the threads of the discussion.

If my sons have been traveling on US passports from day one, have no Singapore IC (except birth certificate or naturalisation paper)and attended a couple of years of local schools, would that be considered having enjoyed "the" benefits ?


You have neglected to tell us you child's birth nationality (probably dual if I'm guessing correctly). Precisely, were your sons born in Singapore to a Singapore Mother or Father. If not, the child would have been a PR (unless you kept him on an LSTVP or Students Visa). If he was a PR and has not attended any Secondary School here you may have an argument provided the rest of the procedures had been followed. However, if your son has a Singapore Birth Certificate showing a Singaporean Parent, unless the proper procedures were/are followed, he can find himself behind the eight ball. My question is how did he enter Singapore each time he traveled? Was it on a US Passport? If so he would have had to be a PR and should not have any problems provided proper procedures have been followed. However, if he re-entered on his own Singapore passport or on a piggyback rider (no longer possible) in his mother's passport then he is a Singaporean and all the rules apply as we have noted throughout these threads.

The term "having enjoyed the socio-economic benefits" here primarily refer to PR's not citizens. Citizens are liable regardless unless they followed proper protocol.

sms

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Postby chongster » Wed, 29 Apr 2009 6:48 am

would appreciate anyone's insight and wisdom in this:

scenario: husband is a UK citizen, wife is singaporean. boy will be born in two months time in russia. wife and daugther (age 7) are both traveling on singapore passports regularly to singapore.

firstly, when the son is born, will he automatically be deemed a singapore citizen (and inherit all these problems) following the changes made to the law in May 2004 (where a child born of a singapore woman will qualify as a citizen by descent)? or is there a registration process?

second, i gather the best way to avoid all these problems is to never let him be a singapore citizen and not travel on a singapore passport. however, if wife, daughter and son are entering singapore, and wife and daugther are traveling with a singapore passport, while son is travelling on a UK passport, would that pose a problem at checkpoint? would wife be suspected of child smuggling each time?

if we need the child to travel on a singapore passport, we are back to the "no singapore passport after 11" route? do we still need to post the 75k/50% salary bond if we do this?

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Attn: chongster

Postby PHK » Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:08 am

My son was born in New York, me being US Citizen, and with wife being a Singaporean. There is nothing automatic about the child becoming a Singapore citizen overseas, only a child is born in Singapore is classified as a Singapore Citizen at time of birth with a notation on the birth certificate, all else have to make a formal application.

There are 2 options available to you (none of this being legal advice of course):

Option 1: Get you new born son a foreign passport, you advised above that the UK will grant him citizenship since father is a UK citizen, and then apply for Singapore PR which can much more easily be renounced latter to legally avoid NS (with some penalties on ability to continue staying in Singapore as an adult, etc). As far as traveling, I think you will find it quite painless especially when your child holds the citizenship of a western country. No need to worry about child smuggling or child custody allegations, if both parents are not traveling together, than just carry a letter or something that shows the other parent is aware of the journey. (Just another FYI... you can not undo your daughter's Singapore Citizenship until age 21 but she is certainly young enough for you to apply for her UK Passport too, if you have not done so yet).

Option 2: Make the stupid mistake that I did and apply for and get Singapore Citizenship / Passport for your child and than join the rest of us parents who then seek avenues to legally get their child exempted from Singapore NS, as per details in this forum.

So the choice is yours but do be mindful that we already have plenty of contributions (frustrations) of navigating through an obscure set of standards to get our son's exempted. Go for option 1, if only I could turn back the clock, why was I so so so stupid...
Last edited by PHK on Thu, 30 Apr 2009 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby chongster » Wed, 29 Apr 2009 3:30 pm

Thanks PHK and sorry to hear. Why would there be a need to apply for a Singapore PR for the boy though, if the lad is not going to be in singapore for any meaningful period? am i missing something?

i would rather that he just be a UK citizen without any singapore PRship, since that also carry NS liability. only thing is that he must be able to go to singapore with his mum and sister for visits. a mother with kids of various nationalities, wouldn't that raise questions and confusion at immigration?

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Attn: chongster

Postby PHK » Wed, 29 Apr 2009 5:30 pm

chongster,

I was under the impression you wanted some sort of immigration rights for your son in Singapore. However, if there is no need for all this, just go with the UK Citizenship / Passport and he can enter Singapore on a tourist visa. In my large family, at times, we have 4 different nationality passports together and it has never presented a problem for us at all.

However, in the future if your son will spend any significant length of time in Singapore, seeing 2 of your family members are such, then the PR will be an option, your wife can apply for in his behalf, at that time as it will save you a bit of money with subsidized medical care, etc. Of course none of this is legal advice!

There are plenty of us needing a GPS to navigate through the intentionally obscure rules of the Singapore government with reference to exemption to Singapore NS. I am glad you will not have to do that now. Well done!
Last edited by PHK on Thu, 30 Apr 2009 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby chongster » Wed, 29 Apr 2009 5:58 pm

thanks for all this and all the best!

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Postby chnkyriceboi » Mon, 01 Jun 2009 4:34 am

Hi, I was born in the US and possess duel citizenship (US and Singapore). I'm 14. I left Singapore before 11 and did not attend school there. I don't have an active Singapore Passport and always use my US. I don't have a NRIC. Is there a way for me to not enter NS?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 01 Jun 2009 7:09 am

Did your parent file for an exit permit? Did they notify mindef of your intent to renounce your Singapore Citizenship on your 21st birthday? Were your parents required to post a bond prior to your leaving Singapore? All these will impact the military protocol as to whether you need to do NS or not. Provided proper protocol was followed, you shouldn't have a problem.

sms

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Postby PHK » Mon, 01 Jun 2009 11:17 am

chnkyriceboi,

My son was born in New York and has dual citizenship too. It is important to keep up with the laws, nothing we write here is legal advice, we are not attorney's, but I commend you at your age at having found this topic to assist you.

Excellent job on not having a valid Singapore Passport, collecting the Singapore Pink Identity Card or staying in Singapore past age 11. May I now suggest the following, only if it has not already been done, much of it has been posted earlier, have your parents assist you if needed:

1. Declare your intention to renounce citizenship now: send a registered letter, with postcard return receipt for yourself, to ICA and MinDef declaring intention to renounce child's citizenship at age 21. Include a photocopy of your child’s birth certificate, citizenship certificate (if applicable), proof of foreign school enrollment / attendance, proof of departure date from Singapore along with a copy of every page of the Singapore and Foreign Passport. The addresses for this notification are as follows:

Central Manpower Base
3 Depot Road, #02-07
Singapore 109680
Tel# +65-6373-3132

ICA Renunciation Unit
10 Kallang Road, #06-00
Singapore 208718
Tel# +65-6391-6316

2. Simultaneously apply on line for an exit permit now (even though you do not have a valid Singapore Passport and you already left Singapore) so that you come into compliance with their intentionally obscure regulations.

3. My son's MinDef reply letter indicated that we will not be required to post a bond, I resigned my Singapore PR and my wife resigned her Singapore Citizenship already, each case is handled individually but please get the ball rolling immediately. I will pm you the name of a Singapore attorney that you may wish to retain immediately.

There really should be no reason why someone under your circumstances should have to waist 2.5 years of their life (after the first 3 months of NS training it is all about squeezing free labor out of you anyway). Good luck young man!

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Postby chnkyriceboi » Tue, 02 Jun 2009 9:56 am

Thank you PHK for all the help. I will be sure to get ahold of the attorney. Thanks again and best wishes.

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Singapore passport

Postby ratchet man » Wed, 10 Jun 2009 2:56 pm

I have a newborn son, mother Singaporean so on the birth certificate, he is a Singapore citizen.

He is also a dual citizen (Oz) and has a Oz passport.

We are planning a trip overseas for a holiday. Should he exit Singapore on his Australian passport and then re-enter on the same? If I do this, how will he re-enter Singapore - since he will not have a re-entry permit on the Australian passport?

Or do we need to go get him a Singapore passport and use that to exit and enter Singapore?

After reading the above posts, I am trying to avoid even having a Singapore passport for my son if I can (my son will be leaving Singapore well before 11 years of age).

Any advice?

Thanks
Last edited by ratchet man on Wed, 10 Jun 2009 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RM

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Singapore passport

Postby ratchet man » Wed, 10 Jun 2009 3:15 pm

just to add for full clarity to my post above

My son was born in Singapore
We are living in Singapore at the moment
RM


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