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exemption from national service

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squid
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Postby squid » Fri, 08 Dec 2006 1:04 am

That is one hell lot of reading to do, I'll try and digest it and see if I get the answer that I need.
Thanks a great deal!!

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briceloh
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Postby briceloh » Fri, 08 Dec 2006 6:20 am

jpatokal wrote:
Thought experiment of the day: would a male-to-female transsexual dual citizen be able to escape NS? :???:


Nope, they will still be required to do some clerical work for the 2 years. Mindef do have lots of paper work for shemales to fill in! :P
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 08 Dec 2006 8:50 am

Briceloh,

Twice as much? :lol:

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Postby squid » Fri, 08 Dec 2006 4:25 pm

After all that fluff on the ministerial statement, the main problem is still.. the mindef is not transparent in his dealings with cases like that.
On their website, one cannot never find details relating to cases like mine.
I guess if thats the case, I think my sons will never ever go back to singapore. Not the end of the world, many people have lived their whole life never having visited singapore.
The goverment is just forcing people to make decisions like that, the fact that they do not allow dual citizenship is the main problem. If after serving NS, one is allowed to hold dual citizenship, then its another different story.
I wonder what the UK goverment has got to say on this matter. Since my 2 sons are now british citizens, can they send british citizens to jail in singapore??????
Maybe its the home office that I need to consult.

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Postby jpatokal » Fri, 08 Dec 2006 8:50 pm

squid wrote:I wonder what the UK goverment has got to say on this matter. Since my 2 sons are now british citizens, can they send british citizens to jail in singapore?????? Maybe its the home office that I need to consult.

The UK has precisely nothing to say on the matter. They've committed no crime under UK law, so they won't jail your sons or extradite them to Singapore... but if they do end up in NS in Singapore, they can't do anything either (since even British citizens are subject to Sing law while there).

I'd suggest you contact the Central Manpower Board directly. If they can certify that your sons haven't enjoyed the substantial benefits talked of above and are thus not liable for NS, they're home free. If they can't or won't, then best avoid Sg.
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Postby Plavt » Fri, 08 Dec 2006 9:04 pm

In short as JP says; you are subject to the law of whatever country you are in regardless of what passport or citizenship you hold.

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Postby briceloh » Sat, 09 Dec 2006 2:01 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Briceloh,

Twice as much? :lol:


I'm sorry, can you explain what's twice as much? You mean the paper work or the shemales? :oops:
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 09 Dec 2006 3:58 pm

briceloh wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Briceloh,

Twice as much? :lol:


I'm sorry, can you explain what's twice as much? You mean the paper work or the shemales? :oops:


paperwork for the she and paperwork for the male - twice as much!

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Postby renter » Fri, 15 Dec 2006 1:14 pm

jpatokal wrote:
Plavt wrote:This as you might expect has me rather puzzled, how can you have a British passport and still be Singaporean citizen? :???:

Easy. If you're a Singaporean citizen, you cannot renounce your citizenship unless you've completed your NS (or were born female).


Oh. I didn't know there's such a law. So any kid born as SG citizen must complete the NS before giving up the citizenship even if he has not lived in SG for a single day? :???:

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Postby jpatokal » Sat, 16 Dec 2006 1:05 am

renter wrote:
jpatokal wrote:
Plavt wrote:This as you might expect has me rather puzzled, how can you have a British passport and still be Singaporean citizen? :???:

Easy. If you're a Singaporean citizen, you cannot renounce your citizenship unless you've completed your NS (or were born female).


Oh. I didn't know there's such a law. So any kid born as SG citizen must complete the NS before giving up the citizenship even if he has not lived in SG for a single day? :???:

Did you read the thread? If the kid left Singapore before enjoying substantial benefit (or whatever the bureaucrat's turn of phrase was), then they can apply to have their citizenship revoked. But yes, if the kid in question waltzes into Singapore for the first time at the age of 30 waving their Sing passport, they will have to do NS.
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Postby sniper968 » Thu, 01 Feb 2007 2:00 am

jpatokal wrote:
squid wrote:They were originally singapore citizens

Then they're still Singapore citizens and still liable for NS. They won't be sent to jail if they return to Singapore -- they'll be sent straight to boot camp to pound mud for 2.5 years.


NS is 2 years now, dude. Better to check with the Ministry of Defence and the Immigration Dept. Just write in.

Things are easy now- check out the piano man who skipped his NS- all he got was a $3,000 fine.
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 01 Feb 2007 10:52 am

I think it's been reduced for a lot of them to around 21 months. As far as the Piano man is concerned, if you have followed the happenings in parliament you will note that his seeming light penalty has raised the ire of a number of MP's so I very much doubt whether the next one will get off so easily.

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Postby Kurozu » Fri, 02 Mar 2007 11:07 am

I hope this topic is still open............

I think you r worrying too much. As long as you and your family travel to singapore with British passport, you are safe (even if your kids have 2 or 3 passports).

No country in their right constitution will kidnap a person who is assumed to be a former citizen of a country. Moreover, passport is the proof of your kids' nationality, not your kids' birthplace. Or else the passport has no meaning at all. Furthermore, there are so many families are in your case (mine too) and we encountered no problem.

Maybe that is why you do not find any information that relates to your worry. Because your situation is non-existance. If I were wrong, then many will not travel to Singapore, and Sing Govt will have their hands full dealing with foreign govt over issue like "British citizen forced to serve in Singapore", and that I think is illogical.
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Postby Plavt » Fri, 02 Mar 2007 4:28 pm

The OP's concen has already been addressed by Jpatokal's answer in which he states 'But yes, if the kid in question waltzes into Singapore for the first time at the age of 30 waving their Sing passport, they will have to do NS'.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 02 Mar 2007 6:32 pm

Kurozu wrote:I hope this topic is still open............

I think you r worrying too much. As long as you and your family travel to singapore with British passport, you are safe (even if your kids have 2 or 3 passports).

No country in their right constitution will kidnap a person who is assumed to be a former citizen of a country. Moreover, passport is the proof of your kids' nationality, not your kids' birthplace. Or else the passport has no meaning at all. Furthermore, there are so many families are in your case (mine too) and we encountered no problem.

Maybe that is why you do not find any information that relates to your worry. Because your situation is non-existance. If I were wrong, then many will not travel to Singapore, and Sing Govt will have their hands full dealing with foreign govt over issue like "British citizen forced to serve in Singapore", and that I think is illogical.


I hate to be the one to burst your bubble but here's the facts.

1. Most countries are going to the biometric passports. This will contain all kinds of information including country of Birth.

2. Singapore already uses Photo ID Recognition software to catch persons returning to Singapore using different passports.

3. Most advanced countries are also tapped into Interpol. With their worldwide database at these countries disposal it will be rather easy to track people.

4. It will be only a matter of time be for the biometric passport data will be used for computerized passenger lists. These lists will be forwarded to all stops for a given flight including the terminal city. By the time the flight arrives, all information will have been checked with interpol, the arrival countries databases and so forth. Gotcha!


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