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exemption from national service

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squid
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exemption from national service

Postby squid » Tue, 05 Dec 2006 12:55 am

Can anyone out there help???
I remarried and bought my 2 sons, one born in 1990 and the other 1991 out of singapore in 2000, which means one is out at the age of 10+ and the other 9+.
They have since been adopted by my husband, have british passport and birth registration in the uk. The boys never went back to singapore to sort out their I/C.
They intend to continue to live and study in the Uk and have no intentions of becoming singapore citizens.
How can I be sure that if they do return back to singapore for a holiday, they will not be captured and sent to jail for escaping NS?
What do I have to do to ensure we are not breaking the law?

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jpatokal
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Postby jpatokal » Tue, 05 Dec 2006 4:21 pm

Were they originally Singapore citizens, or just Singapore PR?
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Postby squid » Wed, 06 Dec 2006 4:00 pm

They were originally singapore citizens

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jpatokal
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Postby jpatokal » Thu, 07 Dec 2006 12:16 am

squid wrote:They were originally singapore citizens

Then they're still Singapore citizens and still liable for NS. They won't be sent to jail if they return to Singapore -- they'll be sent straight to boot camp to pound mud for 2.5 years.
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Postby squid » Thu, 07 Dec 2006 12:50 am

Gee thanks, thats comforting. Anyway out of the situation???

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Postby ksl » Thu, 07 Dec 2006 1:23 am

squid wrote:Gee thanks, thats comforting. Anyway out of the situation???


birth registration in the uk
I didn't believe this was possible!

Surely the registration of birth is Singapore, and the British Citizenship formailty is to register the place of birth as Singapore, with the British Registry of Births.

I also don't believe there is anyway out of it, although everyone could actually turn it into a positive encounter, 2.5 years is nothing, and surely they are able to gain some insight into other activities and trades, that may encourage them to follow, through education, it's not as if they are going into active service. Look at the positive aspects as well as the negative, they may even enjoy it.

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Postby squid » Thu, 07 Dec 2006 1:45 am

Some truth there, I'm sure they can learn alot from the national service, but they are really not singaporeans in thinking, if you know what I mean. They have been away from singapore at a very young age, speak no chinese anymore, really they are bananas( yellow on the outside, white inside)
Also, by the time they finish uni here, they would be above the age of 21. Can they just disappear from singapore, at age 21 , send a letter in renoucing their singapore citizenship. Isn't life that simple?
If they serve NS, at the end of the day, they will have to choose between singapore or UK, they will definitely choose UK, so whats the point of serving NS.

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Postby Plavt » Thu, 07 Dec 2006 2:08 am

jpatokal wrote:Then they're still Singapore citizens and still liable for NS. They won't be sent to jail if they return to Singapore -- they'll be sent straight to boot camp to pound mud for 2.5 years.


This as you might expect has me rather puzzled, how can you have a British passport and still be Singaporean citizen? :???: I have tried to have a quick read up on it but I don't know how accurate the following link is;

http://www.contactsingapore.org.sg/overseas/moving_immigration_forCitizen.shtml#singaporeic

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Postby squid » Thu, 07 Dec 2006 2:25 am

They are technically singaporeans because they are born here and they have not renounce their citizenship because they are below the age of 21. They have got UK registry of birth and british passport because my english husband have legally adopted them which gives them the right.

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Postby briceloh » Thu, 07 Dec 2006 6:23 am

jpatokal wrote:Then they're still Singapore citizens and still liable for NS. They won't be sent to jail if they return to Singapore -- they'll be sent straight to boot camp to pound mud for 2.5 years.


Is 2 years now.
IBMing

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Re: exemption form national service

Postby briceloh » Thu, 07 Dec 2006 6:28 am

squid wrote:Can anyone out there help???
I remarried and bought my 2 sons, one born in 1990 and the other 1991 out of singapore in 2000, which means one is out at the age of 10+ and the other 9+.
They have since been adopted by my husband, have british passport and birth registration in the uk. The boys never went back to singapore to sort out their I/C.
They intend to continue to live and study in the Uk and have no intentions of becoming singapore citizens.
How can I be sure that if they do return back to singapore for a holiday, they will not be captured and sent to jail for escaping NS?
What do I have to do to ensure we are not breaking the law?


Are your sons incapable of physical fits? If so, there are also clerical jobs available for them. Or are you one of those who thinks it is a waste of time?
IBMing

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 07 Dec 2006 9:24 am

Additionally, even if you keep them out of Singapore until they pass 21 the Singapore Government will not accept formal renunciation unless they have done their NS. This means regardless of their ages, if they step foot into Singapore they stand the possibility of being apprehended by the Gov't. Granted they would be traveling under a different passport and due to the fact that they didn't receive their IC's yet. It's a possiblity that they wouldn't ever be caught. This would depend on a lot of things including things like biometric passports which would have a lot of data not normally found on a typical passport (things like the parents names and nationalities?) A biometric passport might have you listed as a Singaporean parent which might cause Singapore Immigration computers to throw up a flag for further investigation. The passports may also contain information like place of birth (regardless of the fact that they also hold a British Birth Registration) My children have two Birth Certificates as well. As the biometric passports contain lots of data, and with terrorism such a big thing, it's always possible that this data will be collected in an "intropol" type database only by getting onto a plane and then being shared thoughout the world and especially with the countries where a given plane will be landing. "Forewarned is forearmed".

These are just thoughts. My son will be doing his NS probably late this year. I, contrary to a lot of individuals on this board, believe in NS and think it is not a waste of time. In your case, I understand the reluctance as they have never lived here. You may want to try contacting ICA in Singapore for more accurate information or solutions.

sms

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Postby squid » Thu, 07 Dec 2006 4:06 pm

Thats whats I was thinking about as well, they have since adopted a new surname, but the place of birth on passport is still singapore, thats the tell tale sign I am afraid about.
I read somewhere before that if the child have left singapore at a very young age, as quoted' did not enjoy the benefits of singapore' will be exempted, but they did not specify how young.
But again, whats the logic of forcing someone to go for NS and then renounce citizenship?? Don't you think its more of a threat to the stability of the country??

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 07 Dec 2006 4:14 pm

Squid,

I think the age is under 10 years old. I'll try to find a link and if I can I'll post it. But you would obviously have to be equipped with sufficient documents to prove that they have been out of the country since only a couple of years old. This shouldn't be much of a problem though. Let me see what I can find.

sms

Here is some info but not what I am looking for:

http://www.wwlegal.com/module-subjects- ... id-14.html

AAAhHhhhh! Here it is......

http://www.parliament.gov.sg/reports/pu ... S0005.html
NS defaulters

In line with these three principles, MINDEF has consistently taken a tough stand against those who default on their National Service obligations. We have introduced various measures over the years to prevent such persons from evading National Service. For example, the Constitution was amended in 1979 so that those who refused to serve could not escape their National Service obligation by simply renouncing their citizenship. Only those who have emigrated at a young age and have not enjoyed substantial socio-economic benefits are allowed to renounce their citizenship without serving National Service.


I would assume you will need to still contact both Mindef and ICA to actually find out how to do it.

sms

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Postby jpatokal » Thu, 07 Dec 2006 8:18 pm

Plavt wrote:This as you might expect has me rather puzzled, how can you have a British passport and still be Singaporean citizen? :???:

Easy. If you're a Singaporean citizen, you cannot renounce your citizenship unless you've completed your NS (or were born female).

Thought experiment of the day: would a male-to-female transsexual dual citizen be able to escape NS? :???:
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