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United Airlines

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Postby Plavt » Thu, 23 Nov 2006 3:50 pm

pandora wrote:#-o

the best way to get tips and advices is from existing crew.

That I can justly dismiss given the rubbish I have sometimes seen on this forum posted by certain serving crew.

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Postby toygirl » Thu, 23 Nov 2006 9:16 pm

BUSTED! Hmm.... the fangs suddenly appear :) Pandora box of lies come revealed.... unfortunately, for someone who first says she isn't from UA then is actually from UA, etc doesn't do much on the credibility factor. Thus, I do not have much to comment. I suggest you re-read your FAOM on FA conduct.

Would you really want to be another statistic? - I really doubt so.

It's a gradual slip of product and quality. If you're blinded, then it's your prerogative. Perhaps being there only 6 months either makes you a subject expert everything United?

From the flow of your communication, the basics that I can comprehend and the crux of your argument/rationale is:

- United's no way near other carriers
- RFAs are hired because of their warm, friendly and courtesy service (Do they still use this line?)
- You're affected by my "Old whiney and desperate" remark. The longest FA in UA is based in SFO if I remember correctly - at 80. Our Asian carriers operate on a completely different spectrum when it comes to recruitment.

Last thing I want to do is have a verbal battle with you- Just please don't go around lying about yourself just to protect your own ego. 6 months on the job and lots of empty talk. No idea of turnover statistics of UA FAs in general and lots of empty talk as usual. Pandora, the base is small, we all know you are and the industry even smaller.

P.S. – A person who flies as a passenger wouldn’t know the term SINSW, etc. So yeah, you can end the bluff  We know who you are. Plus WHQ, etc – Oh please. BUSTED!

Hmm…. let’s do a check on your previous posts – No latin endings till my latest post and you had to copy to prove a point and feel bigger  Sad… Really sad….

Beautiful? - Beauty is the eyes of the beholder, I am just going to say. See the male crew and some obese FAs there and you know what am I talking about.

Entertainment? - Hmm.. some crew do post. You never know whether your Onboard Service Manager may be even reading this thread :)

I have this strange feeling this thread is going to move to another section, don’t you think so Plavt?

Thanks for providing entertainment for us Esther :) We had Awaiting_SIA and now you're the 2nd one so far I've encountered. We'll meet onboard for sure! :D

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Postby love_planes » Fri, 24 Nov 2006 12:54 pm

Seeing the "battling" of words to and fro between Toy_girl and pandora, knowing they both come from United, or at least used to. Toy_girl being the mentor in this forum trying to help newbie, aspiring to be a flight attendant, giving them sound advice from an experienced crew/ex crew is admirable, who would actually takes those times to help newbie who wants to get into this industry badly, very few I must say.

Then again, at times, perhaps it is toy_girl personality who is forward and upfront, there are times the words might not be appropriate.(I don't know you girl just seeing from some of the words you said) When we are meant to do things out of goodwill for others, we still have to be tactful with words used. "Words could heal at the same time words could kills" . The words we used and the way we say them always requires good skill, that is something we learn in our lives and experiences. Words or advice are better receive when one words are supporting, out of wisdom, compassion and empathy. Words which are crude always will sounds like an insult to many others, even when one is actually doing in his/her mind out of goodwill. She is trying to give the newbie a clear picture of what the aviation industry is like. Yes I agreed with you Toy_girl, I was once an aspiring FA, and being there done that. There are things we loved about in this industry and others which are negatives. Agreed that working with local crew are more challenging compare working with international crew, again being there done that. Most of the people in the forum appreciate your advice and thank you for providing such useful information and you do know the industry inside and out, no doubt.

To each its own, don't they? Everything is a gamble or rather a risk. We never know if it is our cup of tea until we try it don't we? People who choose to stay with United not because they are old and desperate. They do know they are earning less than others in the same industry, they know they are working under minimum crew, they are biting the dust, they know the union is not those of the AFAs, they know dear. We do have to admire those who stayed cos of their passion being a flight attendant. All stayed for different reasons, some for the sake of a job, some don't mind all the conditions that are presented to them, they loved the job and know that in their 30s the limitation of getting to other carriers. They loved their colleagues, some worked as a family, others work as individuals. They have good friends within their peers, of course some they consider only colleagues within work only. It happens everywhere we go, don't we? not only in aviation industry not only in United or SQ etc? WHQ has very good trainers and some of them are very supportive and inspiring, we do have to give them that credit. Plus the US system is different from ours, and some of these Americans or the management staff here work as hard as the crew. Every country has her laws and regulations, so does every company. One could choose to abide with those regulations others could choose to leave. But do you know some of these people have the most positive attitudes that is very much admirable? We are what we attract and that is the law of the Universe. These upbeat and positive souls are an inspiration to some newbies in the industry. I have to say there is always black sheep among any group or organisation. Life is filled with irony. With black there is white then we could see the differences. We learn from the good and we learn from the black sheep as well, as we strive not to be one of them, learning from their mistakes, we strive not to repeat them our own.

As much as I don't support some of the things the company do but I am grateful that, they give me that opportunity, and knowing a lot of great people during the process at the same time. I met some of those black sheeps too, and I know I will not be one of them now, in the near future or ever. They makes me even want to be a better person. You are ex RFAs too Toy_girl, you know all the things inside and out of the company. Should we give the newbies a chance to figure out for themselves if that is for them? They went for interviews, if they happened to be shortlisted, they will go through the whole process like we did. And then let them decide if that is the cup of tea for them. There are some awesome friends I have made and some I would not want to even get acquainted with. But the whole process was after all a great one and I moved on with my next phase of life after the aviation industry. Always have gratitude what life has offered us, "good" or "bad", we always learn something out of them. I am grateful that my dreams as being a FA are fulfilled by the companies whom gives me those opportunities. If those chances are not presented to us, we could have those dreams fulfilled and then moved on to fulfil our other dreams? Use our words wisely, we could help more people than we ever know.

There is no reason to proves who is right or wrong, it is a matter of choice, we choose to look at things. Remember Ghandi he gained the independence for India without going out for a war, he did it with his wisdom, compassion and non violent attitude for his country. both toy_girl and pandora are trying to prove their points. I am neither pro United or anti United, but I am coming from a place where I know they are BOTH speaking the truth and facts. Just appreciate that once we are given the opportunity to be with the family, but not all members shared the same views and common goals and some of us choose to leave that family and pursue something that suits our soul urge. Seek peace and gratitude, fellow souls.

Peace, love_planes

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Postby toygirl » Fri, 24 Nov 2006 2:20 pm

Thanks for that inspiring piece. We both have strong opinions. I am still not pro-United but at the end of the day, it is a newbies life to decide. They make the choices and not us. Pandora is giving her view, you too and mine. It's sad to the quality drop and drop and drop, benefits and crew welfare down. Some of the ex-UA crew were working as let's see beauty consultant, real estate, insurance, etc - Basically anything they could do to survive. The moment the base was set up - news spread like wildfire, ex crew were contacted. Some came, some didn't. I didn't - it's a new United. It's not the place to grow your career in my opinion. My friends who took the AFA contract are happy in HKG. I honestly believe in union and protection.

I know quite a bit about the management staff and trust me - It isn't as great as you think it is - Chapter 11, non FAs training RFAs, etc.

I do not ever want anything that me and my colleagues went through as an RFA to repeat for a second time. But the case is - It is up to the person to decide. I know one who returned back to the base after his business failed overseas and when you aren't exactly in your 20s, you probably are desperate.

I have friends who went back. I haven't heard much positive news so far. Probably because they would earn better at UA than working at VF and Jetstar.

I do appreciate your piece. It is the most neutral I have come across so far. I consider this thread closed. Take care.

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Postby love_planes » Fri, 24 Nov 2006 4:34 pm

Thank you Toy_girl,

See you did out of goodwill to help the newbies, as you don't want them to go through what the ex RFAs have had. I can see you are a very caring soul who helps. I know what you meant, I too made that choice to go in and later go out as I shared some of your views. We also have met some wonderful friends in UAL, I also believes in welfare and union. In an organisation, there is no all good nor all bad.

Now you see what I meant, if I don't come from a neutral place and I started attacking your words and you will be rebutting back. Then it goes on and on and on........and if that is the case we will never know we actually come from the same place, we do share the same opionions. We will repel each other, instead of agreeing with each other. That is the power of words:" Words could heals, words could kills" We all shared the same qualities that requires to be a FA, empathy, understanding and caring. I too, value your opionions. thank you toy_girl, take care too!

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Postby pandora » Sat, 25 Nov 2006 1:31 am

I don't know why I keep saying this, but I am not a crew. With friends who are RFAs you will surely learn some of the terminologies, cause that's their lingo. We may get confused at the beginning, but as ex-crew, we will surely pick-up the terms in no time.

If I am a crew, there is no need to deny it. Doing so would mean that I'm ashamed. Admitting that I'm a crew would surely make some of the points valid, as it would have come first hand.

I was offered a position, yes, but did not take it up. If you had asked around with your friends, you would also know that there are plenty who declined the training offer. If there is also an Esther who is a RFA, I hope she does not come across this thread. My mistake was to provoke you, ToyGirl, but I see no point for another person to be affected by that. I will take responsibility for my own mistake. Somebody else's good name should not be tarnished because we happen to share the same name.

Nevertheless, thank you love_planes for the insightful piece.

Believe what you will ToyGirl, but I do wish you well. Oh yeah, as upsetting as it might have been, I have enjoyed the banter, although not all of it. :)
Be mild with the mild, shrewd with the crafty, confiding to the honest, rough to the ruffian, and a thunderbolt to the liar. But in all this, never be unmindful of your own dignity. - John Brown

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Postby love_planes » Sat, 25 Nov 2006 11:05 am

You are welcome Pandora. :)

Give yourself a pat on the back that you tried to clear the name for the other person who might not even know what is going on here in the forum. Agreed it is their lingo and not difficult to pick it up if you often hang out the the RFAs. This industry in Singapore is very small, we are all ex crew, will happened to know some mutual friends, very common. As a passenger I will pick United to fly with too, cos I trust the synergy of my friends who works within their peers, they are doing their best as dedicated flight attendant.

There is peace that follows..........and yes this thread is formally closed. Thanks Toy_girl and Pandora for all your wisdoms and understanding, we do wish that all those who aspire to be a flight attendant will have their dreams fulfilled irregardless of which company they choose to fly with, it is their dreams that is honoured.

Peace, Love_planes

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