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Registered Trade Marks

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ksl
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Registered Trade Marks

Postby ksl » Tue, 17 Oct 2006 6:15 pm

I'm just curious, about trade marks.

I have been playing around with my own designs, for quite a while now, but cannot help thinking if it is worth while spending money for a professional company to design one for me, After all there are no guarantees, are there?

I have really many to chose from, which i have done myself, after consulting the trade mark criteria, and gosh, so complicated it is, and expensive, because of all the different classes, one can register under.

It is a very important step, but how does one measure the importance in financial terms?

Once the payment is made, there is still no guarantee it will go through and the money is not refundable, So is it better to wait until your product is successful, with the logo unregestered, I personally think not!

I'm just fishing for opinions.

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Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 17 Oct 2006 7:42 pm

I think you register a trademark for two reasons. First, if you are building a company that you may later want to sell, you give it brand protection. Second, if you are selling a product tightly associated with brand (like Rolex, for example) then you need brand protection. You may also want to consider registration if you think someone else would like to use the classy name and logo that you have developed.

Not so important if you do not intend to grow to a point of selling or if branding makes little difference. Why brand the standard pair of flip flops? OTOH, branding 'Crocs' is essential.

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sundaymorningstaple
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 17 Oct 2006 9:28 pm

So what you are saying is register trademarks if you have visions of grandeur. Or at least hope to. :cool:

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Postby ksl » Wed, 18 Oct 2006 2:01 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:So what you are saying is register trademarks if you have visions of grandeur. Or at least hope to. :cool:
:D

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Postby MoTokyo » Wed, 18 Oct 2006 8:09 pm

I'm knowledgeable of trademarks on the Internet and I can tell you that owning the actual domain name gives you leverage in the event someone else competes under a similar name within the U.S. (irregardless of where their business is based), but I can't absolutely say the same for anywhere else.

As far as trademarking signage, I wouldn't bother untill the business is successful. Most logos and font-types are copied a thousand times over worldwide in various formats; Although they may not be identical, they're still abused on a massive scale.

Trademarking logos and font-types is only necessary when launching massive and expensive advertising campaigns, whether in Singapore or abroad.

Global businesses are mostly concerned with trademarking slogans, so unless you've got the cream-of-the-crop-make-em-buy line, don't worry about it. Trademarks help businesses prevent others from capitalizing on marketed terms (e.g. everyone uses "Just Do It" in their advertisements when Nike had paid millions to advertise the term).

Register domains for your business name in .com, .net, .biz, and .sg format and get started before trademarking any items. The domain registration also gives you Online leverage over your competitors.

Patents on products or services are a different topic but the basics remain the same.

Name->Business Startup->Trademark->Patents->Advertising

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Postby ksl » Wed, 18 Oct 2006 10:07 pm

MoTokyo wrote:I'm knowledgeable of trademarks on the Internet and I can tell you that owning the actual domain name gives you leverage in the event someone else competes under a similar name within the U.S. (irregardless of where their business is based), but I can't absolutely say the same for anywhere else.

As far as trademarking signage, I wouldn't bother untill the business is successful. Most logos and font-types are copied a thousand times over worldwide in various formats; Although they may not be identical, they're still abused on a massive scale.

Trademarking logos and font-types is only necessary when launching massive and expensive advertising campaigns, whether in Singapore or abroad.

Global businesses are mostly concerned with trademarking slogans, so unless you've got the cream-of-the-crop-make-em-buy line, don't worry about it. Trademarks help businesses prevent others from capitalizing on marketed terms (e.g. everyone uses "Just Do It" in their advertisements when Nike had paid millions to advertise the term).

Register domains for your business name in .com, .net, .biz, and .sg format and get started before trademarking any items. The domain registration also gives you Online leverage over your competitors.

Patents on products or services are a different topic but the basics remain the same.

Name->Business Startup->Trademark->Patents->Advertising


Thanks for the advice guys, I have also learnt from the UK patent office, that the actual time it takes to register the trade mark, is quite lengthy, and the best way to solve any disputes over who was first, with the logo and/or text, is to seal your logo and text in an envelope, and request the post office to stamp a very clear, date stamp, over the seal in several places, then post it to yourself. Leave sealed of course until needed.

This can then be opened in a court of law, to prove the actual date, that the logo/text was designed, and sealed for safe keeping. It also covers the copyright issues.

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Re: Registered Trade Marks

Postby Oriental » Mon, 23 Oct 2006 7:34 pm

ksl wrote:I'm just curious, about trade marks.

I have been playing around with my own designs, for quite a while now, but cannot help thinking if it is worth while spending money for a professional company to design one for me, After all there are no guarantees, are there?

I have really many to chose from, which i have done myself, after consulting the trade mark criteria, and gosh, so complicated it is, and expensive, because of all the different classes, one can register under.

It is a very important step, but how does one measure the importance in financial terms?

Once the payment is made, there is still no guarantee it will go through and the money is not refundable, So is it better to wait until your product is successful, with the logo unregestered, I personally think not!

I'm just fishing for opinions.


To my knowledge you enjoy protection simply by establishing your brand in a market. But the extend of your protection depends on the geographically scope of your business. For example if your geographically scope is the town you’re living in then your brand is protected there. But if someone in the neighbouring town copies your brand, there’s nothing much you can do about it.

Also I seem to recall that even if you register a trademark and do not use it within a certain time frame you eventually forfeit the protection granted.

My advice to you would be to first focus on growing your new business. When your business has proven it’s growth potential then you can register your trademark in multiple markets. At that time professional advise is recommended, which you would pay for out of the profit from your business.
Impossible is nothing!

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Re: Registered Trade Marks

Postby ksl » Tue, 24 Oct 2006 3:27 am

Oriental wrote:
ksl wrote:I'm just curious, about trade marks.

I have been playing around with my own designs, for quite a while now, but cannot help thinking if it is worth while spending money for a professional company to design one for me, After all there are no guarantees, are there?

I have really many to chose from, which i have done myself, after consulting the trade mark criteria, and gosh, so complicated it is, and expensive, because of all the different classes, one can register under.

It is a very important step, but how does one measure the importance in financial terms?

Once the payment is made, there is still no guarantee it will go through and the money is not refundable, So is it better to wait until your product is successful, with the logo unregestered, I personally think not!

I'm just fishing for opinions.


To my knowledge you enjoy protection simply by establishing your brand in a market. But the extend of your protection depends on the geographically scope of your business. For example if your geographically scope is the town you’re living in then your brand is protected there. But if someone in the neighbouring town copies your brand, there’s nothing much you can do about it.

Also I seem to recall that even if you register a trademark and do not use it within a certain time frame you eventually forfeit the protection granted.

My advice to you would be to first focus on growing your new business. When your business has proven it’s growth potential then you can register your trademark in multiple markets. At that time professional advise is recommended, which you would pay for out of the profit from your business.


Thanks Oriental, I have actually found out, from the patent website, that even if you have your own trade mark, and it is used on a regular basis, that your protection is very limited in a Court case, and the person using a trade mark without it being registered, has the burden of proof.

Whereby the benefits of registering the trade mark with the patent office, normally pays off in Court.

In fact I have already submitted the trade mark now, after doing some deep research on the trade mark sites in USA, UK and Singapore.

Geographical scope, I think you will find that all the international patent & trade mark offices work together on a computerised search system and will not authorise the trade mark, if it is being used in another Country, if it is in the same product classification.

The latest court case in China, was against a Chinese Company using the name Ikea, trying to profit on the name which was already registered, in it's home Country, the guy tried his best to document that it was is own trade mark, without success.

It is a complicated search and I believe well worth the fee, for 10 years, if you are able to come up with a classic trade mark that sends out the message you want to send, also because there are many classifications in which a trade mark are acceptable, without infringement.

The initial time of design is of great importance, this is why they suggest submitting the design in a closed envelope, and posting to yourself, for proof of date, time stamp if there are Court actions. If you cannot document the time hen you made up the design, it will be thrown out, no matter how long you have used, the mark. Unfortunate, but it seems that the patent office, do have some weight in the Courts.

And of course they have, with it being a government business, making lots of money.


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