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Divorce in Singapore

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cookedgoose
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Divorce in Singapore

Postby cookedgoose » Sun, 15 Oct 2006 1:51 pm

Hi

I am unfortunate enough to find myself in a rather taxing situation. I have just lost my job, and my wife of 6 years (we are both expats) wants out of the marriage. On top of this we have young children.

We recently applied for PR, and neither of us wants to leave Singapore. Well, I would leave if the right job came up, as I would stay if it were to come up here in Singapore.

What are the procedures for this? Will my soon to be ex and kids still be allowed to live in Singapore? Essentially I will be supporting them in every way that I possibly can (as soon as I find a new job).

Any knowledge that can be shared would be appreciated.

Thank you.

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Re: Divorce in Singapore

Postby ksl » Sun, 15 Oct 2006 5:08 pm

cookedgoose wrote:Hi

I am unfortunate enough to find myself in a rather taxing situation. I have just lost my job, and my wife of 6 years (we are both expats) wants out of the marriage. On top of this we have young children.

We recently applied for PR, and neither of us wants to leave Singapore. Well, I would leave if the right job came up, as I would stay if it were to come up here in Singapore.

What are the procedures for this? Will my soon to be ex and kids still be allowed to live in Singapore? Essentially I will be supporting them in every way that I possibly can (as soon as I find a new job).

Any knowledge that can be shared would be appreciated.

Thank you.
Your both adults and I'm sure you both love your kids, why not just live apart for a while, may be you can rekindle the fire eventually. When I look back on my own divorce, I was so stubborn, when she walked out, that I said if you go, I will never have you back, 6 month down the road she realised she didn't want too break up.

Only my stubborness and the fact i was enjoying the separtion after I got over the emotional period, it was the final straw, no way would i consider having her back, foolish pride and the lack of my own responsibilty after a 6 months separation was a mistake i could have corrected, like most of us, we act at a time of high pressure, not always a good thing, both of you should cool down and have a break from each other.

Rules must apply, other sexual relationships in the separation period, will only complicate the issues. the no sex thinggy must apply. it is far too easy to jump out of the frying pan into the fire! Time alone will give you both time too reflect on the whole marriage and your children.

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Postby cookedgoose » Sun, 15 Oct 2006 8:18 pm

Thanks for the advice. Perhaps rushing into things is not the correct way to do things. And in our case there is no "other" involved. At least, not to my knowledge.

The unfortunate truth however patient we may be, is that the government is not. I am still without a job. Should the PR papers come through befor my final day at work (a couple of months away) will we still be ok to stay in singapore? Or can they retract the PR status based on my employment status, as is done with an EP?

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Postby jpatokal » Sun, 15 Oct 2006 9:07 pm

Once PR is granted, it's granted. You only face getting kicked out if your PR comes up for renewal (5 years down the line) and you can't show how you're supporting yourself.
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Thanks

Postby cookedgoose » Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:01 pm

Thank you all for your answers. they do all help me.

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Postby Grim Reaper » Tue, 17 Oct 2006 1:27 pm

Very complex situation.

First of all, where is your marriage registered? Where did you initially get married? Reading both of you are non-Singaporeans (and not PR's yet), my guess is both of you were not married here in Singapore and have not registered the marriage here either.

But I believe you are more worried about the consequences regarding the children's right to be here and your situation regarding your PR?

PR applications here are in most cases processed within 6 to 8 weeks. So my guess is that your PR status will be known faster than you get divorced. But at the same time I would say both of you would have to update the ICA with your status regarding the possible divorce and especially you would have to let them know about your unemployment, as I am almost sure this is stated in the application: you have to make sure the latest information is available to the ICA when processing the application for PR.

And your chances for PR will not exactly increase with this ongoing I am afraid.

In case you both did get married here and are registered married here, I can tell from experience that you will go through a terrible period: Divorce in Singapore is a nightmare with only 2 parties gaining from it: both your lawyers.

The process is highly frustrating, time consuming and tends to get expensive when you trust your lawyers and take their lies for truth.

All the best...
Time will come....

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Postby jpatokal » Tue, 17 Oct 2006 4:41 pm

Grim Reaper wrote:PR applications here are in most cases processed within 6 to 8 weeks. So my guess is that your PR status will be known faster than you get divorced. But at the same time I would say both of you would have to update the ICA with your status regarding the possible divorce and especially you would have to let them know about your unemployment, as I am almost sure this is stated in the application: you have to make sure the latest information is available to the ICA when processing the application for PR.

I certainly wouldn't rush to tell the ICA about what has happened. The original poster's application was 100% correct at the time it was submitted, so he's committed no crime, and even though the severance period has started, he is still employed at the moment. His employer is not going to notify the tax authorities etc until his employment actually ends, by which time he should already have his PR and thus be in the clear.
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Re: Divorce in Singapore

Postby Grim Reaper » Tue, 17 Oct 2006 4:58 pm

cookedgoose wrote:Hi

I am unfortunate enough to find myself in a rather taxing situation. I have just lost my job, and my wife of 6 years (we are both expats) wants out of the marriage. On top of this we have young children.

We recently applied for PR, and neither of us wants to leave Singapore. Well, I would leave if the right job came up, as I would stay if it were to come up here in Singapore.


This is what I read JP?

I agree with you to be reluctant in telling what is not needed, but as far as I can remember from my own, there is a part in the PR application where it says you have to give relevant update on your status during application process.

But of course, once you update ICA with the information you just lost your job, you can fill in the response from them...
Time will come....

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Postby cookedgoose » Tue, 17 Oct 2006 9:25 pm

Hello Again

And a big thank you to all of you who have engaged in this topic. I looked and did many searches befor asking the question myself. So I hope others in the future will gain great insight from the information that you are sharing. I know I knew nothing at the time, but am learning as I go along.

At the time of submitting my PR papers, I did not know the future. and even today, I am not sure what lies ahead - can my wife and I fix things or not? Who knows. But what I do know is that in the interests of my children and my wife, I would love for them to have a few more years here. They need it for a number of reasons, but the most important being that my wife is starting her own little business which one day might be rather big. And of course I want what is best for her, and what is best for my children.

Our PR is essential. And I would or could never disrupt that based on a "probably be" future.

Home, where we come from, is not ideal. Nor will it be the place where we end up being. So if it comes down to keeping my mouth shout for a few months and hoping for the best, then that is the advice I am happy to take.

Should issues change and new challenges appear, I'll be sure to let you all know. And thanks once again for all the advice.

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Postby cookedgoose » Tue, 17 Oct 2006 9:30 pm

One last important point. My job may have been lost, but there are already other options out there. For a little less money yes, but the options are there. So I do not believe I am doing anyone a favour by running back to the MOM to tell them my latest position. At least, not until I know for sure myself what that may be.

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Postby ksl » Wed, 18 Oct 2006 2:47 am

cookedgoose wrote:One last important point. My job may have been lost, but there are already other options out there. For a little less money yes, but the options are there. So I do not believe I am doing anyone a favour by running back to the MOM to tell them my latest position. At least, not until I know for sure myself what that may be.


Quite right! The wind & the weather changes every minute of the day, So tell them nothing until you are ready.

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Postby riversandlakes » Wed, 18 Oct 2006 3:23 am

CG,

Can't imagine how taxing your situation is. Wish you all the best.
Goatboy will always cherish his former goatgirl.
But the world is full of fluffier ones.

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Postby cookedgoose » Wed, 18 Oct 2006 10:20 am

Hurts like hell. that's how it is. No other way to discribe it. :???:

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Postby Jumpshift » Wed, 18 Oct 2006 12:22 pm

cookedgoose,

First of all let me say my sympathy to you. I've been in your situation (where wife asked for divorce, it is - not the losing job part though) and I know how hurtful it is. Let me share a relevant part of the story and considerations in relation to the PR-cy - hope that could help or at least be a food for thought.

That time the wife actually wanted out from the marriage for some reason, and she is adamant on it. We have only 1 kid that time and my main concern, other than my own feeling, is that I want my kid to stay here and not go anywhere. For her reason, my wife really want a quickie divorce, although she really have to rely on me upon divorce to maintain herself and our kid (imagine - I couldn't understand her but that's how she wanted it). No begs or pleas from my side changed her mind, although if we got divorced, with the job she held she only have a slim chance of getting her own EP (she worked on LoC) or PR.

So during this process, I immediately applied for PR for myself, my wife, and my kid - in my mind, the only thing I want is that my wife can stay here with my kid, even if we got divorced (alternately I could apply student pass for my kid, but with my work and travel, without my wife my kid will have no caregiver most of the time. If I got divorce and my wife couldn't get an EP or PR of her own, she'd have to leave).

I did get my PR within a month after application. By then, the divorce discussion (yes, we've gone to the level where there is alimony discussions between lawyers - but not yet go to court) is quite advanced and about 2 weeks after getting my PR I went finally to ICA and asked whether my wife and kids can retain their PR-cy (since their PR applications are on 'dependent' type to my PR-cy) if we got divorced. The answer was that they will be able to retain both PR and reentry permit, but upon the next renewal, my wife's will be judged based on her own merit and will not be accepted as 'dependent' of mine even if I pay sufficient alimony.

These are all about 3 years ago. Subsequently, my wife did a u-turn at last minute, and accepted "legal separation" (as the lawyers define it, meaning leaving separately and consulting appointed marriage counsellor on particular intervals). I understand this is a 'requirement' of Singapore divorce (?) - to be separated and counselled for a couple of years before the actual divorce. Happily, I can say that this year we decided that we can reconcile back again.

I hope the above can give you some insight, while it may not be exactly your situation.
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Don't believe me - I'm stupid

cookedgoose
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Postby cookedgoose » Wed, 18 Oct 2006 3:45 pm

Jumpshift

Thank you so much for sharing your story with me. I am pleased that it has brought about a happy ending for you.

The detail on PR is astounding, and good to know. By the time my ex's PR will be up for renewal, she will surely be able to get EP OR PR based on her own merits.

Thank you and good luck to you.
Cookedgoose


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