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Women wearing the Veil

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robin37
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Women wearing the Veil

Postby robin37 » Wed, 11 Oct 2006 8:36 pm

Hi,

There is a lot of debate in Europe about women wearing the Veil, is this an issue in Singapore at all?

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sundaymorningstaple
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 11 Oct 2006 10:32 pm

No, why should it be?

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Postby Ecka Dimmock » Thu, 12 Oct 2006 6:58 am

Well, there was a couple of years ago when the Ministry of Education banned Muslim head coverings from primary schools, but the local Islamic authrorities supported the decision.

However, the local Muslim women usually cover their hair but not their faces: the full veil seems to be more of an Arab thing. Also, they're an indigenous rather than immigrant community, so the usual political rhetoric about the adopted country's values doesn't apply.

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Postby jpatokal » Thu, 12 Oct 2006 8:41 pm

As so often in Singapore, not all is what is seems underneath that placid surface...

From http://www.ihrc.org.uk/show.php?id=776 :

In early 2002, three female Muslim school students were suspended for sporting the headscarf, claimed as a violation of the school uniform. A fourth Muslim girl was withdrawn from the school by her parents. The Education Ministry refused to rescind the suspension and [PM Goh Chok] Tong came out in support of the headscarf ban.

The PAP-government was accused of attempting to frustrate attempts at a legal challenge to the ban and suspension through the refusal to grant a Malaysia-based lawyer, representing the above female school students, an employment permit to operate in Singapore. Again, many within Singapore’s Muslim community saw the Tudung affair as an attempt to ensure harmony through suppression. February 2002 saw an opposition leader [Chee Soon Juan] accused of violating laws which ban the public discussion of sensitive religious and racial issues and fined $1,700 for publicly criticising the government’s ban on headscarves in schools.
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sundaymorningstaple
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 12 Oct 2006 9:19 pm

JP,

That was sort of a tempest in a teacup don't you think? I mean damn, we have a whole clan of black tent & veil wearing muslims somewhere out near changi don't we? Been here for years. The wearing of the tudung in the public schools is no different than the wearing of uniforms as far as I'm concerned. We are talking about the veil here not the tudung. The school policies were set long before. So a couple of malays wanted to try to stir the pot. Not really what is happening in Europe do you think?

3 little girls doesn't not a crisis make. Except where Dr. Chee is concerned that is.

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jpatokal
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Postby jpatokal » Sat, 14 Oct 2006 7:01 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Not really what is happening in Europe do you think?

3 little girls doesn't not a crisis make. Except where Dr. Chee is concerned that is.

Well, I really don't see where the "crisis" is in Europe either. Except where Mr. Straw is concerned that is.

Personally, I find both uniforms and veils distasteful, so now you can all hate me :cool:
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 14 Oct 2006 9:56 pm

jpatokal wrote:Personally, I find both uniforms and veils distasteful, so now you can all hate me :cool:


sundaymorningstaple wrote:JP,
The wearing of the tudung in the public schools is no different than the wearing of uniforms as far as I'm concerned.


You will notice that I did not indicate whether or not I agreed with the wearing of uniforms. As a Yank, I've only ever considered school uniforms the province of Catholic Schools and communist states (both of which demand mindless conformity). So no, I don't hate you.

:shit:

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Strong Eagle
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Postby Strong Eagle » Sat, 14 Oct 2006 10:32 pm

jpatokal wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Not really what is happening in Europe do you think?

3 little girls doesn't not a crisis make. Except where Dr. Chee is concerned that is.

Well, I really don't see where the "crisis" is in Europe either. Except where Mr. Straw is concerned that is.

Personally, I find both uniforms and veils distasteful, so now you can all hate me :cool:


I appreciate where Mr. Straw is coming from. Should ID pictures be taken with the veil in place? And, this kind of anonymous hiding of women is, in my opinion, a bizarre religious practice that has no place in an open and free society.

There is a conflict alright. It is a conflict between a medival view of women and a a liberal, modern view of women.

I really like this bit on the web.

http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp? ... mv&ak=null

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Postby Ecka Dimmock » Sun, 15 Oct 2006 7:39 am

And, this kind of anonymous hiding of women is, in my opinion, a bizarre religious practice that has no place in an open and free society.


It's OK in Singapore though, surely? :wink:

While I have reservations about veils myself, I feel that an open and free society ceases to be such when it starts dictating what citizens may wear, and forcing minorities to conform, except in situations where those choices hurt others.


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