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Hosting IMF did Singapore more harm than good

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Hosting IMF did Singapore's Reputation:

More HARM!
4
44%
More Good!
5
56%
 
Total votes: 9

inkjetprinter
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Hosting IMF did Singapore more harm than good

Postby inkjetprinter » Sat, 16 Sep 2006 9:46 am

Hosting IMF did more harm then good.
Hosting the IMF/World Bank meeting did more harm then good to Singapore.

[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5348134.stm [/url]

[url] http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/a...reut/index.html [/url]

Spore government is so use to taking "authoritarian" stand against Singaporeans (and we are suxers for suffering in silence), they can apply the same to the activist, by restricting public protest.

I think the government is scared that if they allow public protest, very soon, Singaporeans would also want to stage their own protest.

I don't see anything wrong with peaceful protest. While I was studying overseas, I have seen many peaceful protest & demonstrastion which was conducted in a civilise manner.

The ordinary citizens have protest against the Iraq war, what's wrong with peaceful protest against a violent cause??

The ordinary citizens have protest against unfair treatment at work, (the rich exploited the poor), what's wrong with protecting your rights and fighting for a better treatment to feed your wife & kids??

Not all protest ends in violent, I have seen for myself many peaceful and civilise ones.

I have seen more violence and bloodshed at soccer matches, the Taiwanese parliament and drunken drivers,

Does that mean we ban soccer matches, parliament sitting and alcohol???

Go think about it....

I say, give the people a voice, allow us to speak up.

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Re: Hosting IMF did Singapore more harm than good

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 16 Sep 2006 12:02 pm

inkjetprinter wrote:
Go think about it....

I say, give the people a voice, allow us to speak up.


Funny post.

Your last line says it all. You will never get the right unless you take it. Daddy can we speak up please????? You need permission to speak up? You will never get the permission unless you take it. It shows just how conditioned you are from birth. Go think about it.....

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Postby briceloh » Sat, 16 Sep 2006 1:13 pm

SMS, i guess negative reinforcement and punishment methods still works around here. What say you?
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 16 Sep 2006 4:44 pm

briceloh wrote:SMS, i guess negative reinforcement and punishment methods still works around here. What say you?


I agree with you. As long a you all let it, it will still work. Remember Tiennamen Square. After Mao and the little red book for 20 years, they finally stood up for themselves. One man because a centrepoint for the whole episode by standing in front of the tank. Did it work, yes, partially. At least there is considerable changes today compared to then. It takes time. But, it also takes guts! And to my perception of the past 2.5 decades of my observations, the guts are what is lacking. Is this the results of the "O" level mother breeding program???? :wink:

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Sat, 16 Sep 2006 6:32 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:to my perception of the past 2.5 decades of my observations, the guts are what is lacking.

I think it's passion that's lacking. When you care about something enough, you'll find the guts to do it.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 16 Sep 2006 7:20 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:to my perception of the past 2.5 decades of my observations, the guts are what is lacking.

I think it's passion that's lacking. When you care about something enough, you'll find the guts to do it.


Fair enough. Guess I just equate passion with guts. Probably due to my upbringing of not being under a 'velvet fisted dictatorship" we've always acted on our passions and "damn the torpedos" in other words do what you feel is right and suffer the consequences. At first you will be alone but eventually there will be a groundswell which will sweep all in it's path away..

WIMH, were you old enough (awareness) to remember the ousting of Marcos? "People Power" and what it can accomplish even in view of a tyrant like Marcos was a good example. Nothing can stand in the way of the "People" once they have had enough. Anything is possible. :wink:

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Postby ksl » Sat, 16 Sep 2006 11:29 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:to my perception of the past 2.5 decades of my observations, the guts are what is lacking.

I think it's passion that's lacking. When you care about something enough, you'll find the guts to do it.


I believe SMS to be more correct, simply because it, takes more than passion, to take on bullies. You could say the bullies have the passion to bully, because there is no opposition, it takes guts, to put a bully in his rightful position.

It takes guts to fight for your rights, not so much passion! Dignity, and self respect, are at stake!

But its the comfort zone one must leave, and the guts to take the punishment, because you will be punished, thats without a doubt.

Dignity: the quality or state of being worthy, honored, or esteemed

So change comes with guts, passion for change, will come with the amount of times one is punished

[quote}Passion 3 : the state or capacity of being acted on by external agents or forces[/quote]

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Sun, 17 Sep 2006 12:09 am

ksl, I agree that guts make things happen. Courage stems from something more deep-rooted though. I don't believe anyone is born with guts. We develop courage by finding something we feel strongly about. I am not a brave person broadly speaking, but will turn into a spitfire if someone insults or hurts my family. Isn't that how it works with most of us? Maybe I'm wrong.

sundaymorningstaple wrote:WIMH, were you old enough (awareness) to remember the ousting of Marcos? "People Power" and what it can accomplish even in view of a tyrant like Marcos was a good example. Nothing can stand in the way of the "People" once they have had enough. Anything is possible. :wink:

SMS, I'm only 18. :P

Seriously, if the day comes when Singapore is ruled by a tyrant and people are oppressed for long enough, I believe that passion for fairness and a decent life would lead to a similar uprising. I just don't think that the IMF arouses that kind of groundswell in our hearts. :wink:

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 17 Sep 2006 1:12 am

Wind In My Hair wrote:SMS, I'm only 18. :P

Seriously, if the day comes when Singapore is ruled by a tyrant and people are oppressed for long enough, I believe that passion for fairness and a decent life would lead to a similar uprising. I just don't think that the IMF arouses that kind of groundswell in our hearts. :wink:


Only in 'our' dreams :P

I didn't mean to allude only to the powers that be or were. I should have used something more like greenpeace as an example. While I don't exactly agree with all of their methods, I do admire their courage to stand up for what they believe in.

Let me ask you something.......

If Singapore decided to build a nuclear power plant, would the good citizens take it lying down? Kopi Shop Complaining only more than likely. The reason I ask is because of the VLCC LNG tankers that will be bringing liquid LNG to Singapore in the future.
Image

http://www.capecodtoday.com/blogs/index ... e_scenario
http://www.nytimes.com/cfr/internationa ... ref=slogin

These thing have the potential to take out half of the main populated area of the southern part of the island. Just an example to think about. But I digress from the OP's original post.

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Postby Strong Eagle » Sun, 17 Sep 2006 7:17 am

I thought the LNG tankers were already coming to Singapore. Where else are we getting our natural gas?

Just to make it IMF related, the Singapore Navy was out in force during the IMF. They had ships running parallel to the LNG tankers in the straights... between the tanker and shore.

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Sun, 17 Sep 2006 8:51 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:If Singapore decided to build a nuclear power plant, would the good citizens take it lying down? Kopi Shop Complaining only more than likely.

That, and letters to the forum page, and petitions, and blogs, and taxi conversations, and debates in parliament. Perhaps what you would like to see are street protests? Why is that a more effective form of protest? More visible, yes. More effective in terms of results? Debatable. And you know us, we're pragmatic types. Street protests too hot lah!

And to keep this on topic, the IMF to the average Singaporean is a mere inconvenience due to road closures, extra security etc. I'm sure few are bemoaning the fact that there are no protestors. Is the government's primary responsibility to its citizens or to foreign protestors?

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Postby briceloh » Sun, 17 Sep 2006 9:23 am

Strong Eagle wrote:I thought the LNG tankers were already coming to Singapore. Where else are we getting our natural gas?

Just to make it IMF related, the Singapore Navy was out in force during the IMF. They had ships running parallel to the LNG tankers in the straights... between the tanker and shore.


You work in the marine line? Or you were out fishing and observing alot of their activities? :P
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 17 Sep 2006 11:40 am

SE,

I thought the were already here as well, but while I remember when the news was out there that the tankers were coming, I couldn't find, in the short space of time of writing the reply, the confirmation that it was a work in process. Now I work inland so I don't see the harbour anymore but I remember thinking at the time it was announced, that "don't they realize the potential dangers of one of those thing in singapore's harbour". Yet the population (or government) doesn't seem to care about the dangers. I worked around that kind of stuff for 15 years while in the oilfields in the Gulf of Mexico and S.E.Asia and from the early '80's in Natuna when that field was discovered. Guess the difference is one of those tankers will only take out half the island while a nuclear plant would wipe out the whole place. Lesser of two evils I guess.........

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 17 Sep 2006 12:13 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:That, and letters to the forum page, and petitions, and blogs, and taxi conversations, and debates in parliament. Perhaps what you would like to see are street protests? Why is that a more effective form of protest? More visible, yes. More effective in terms of results? Debatable. And you know us, we're pragmatic types. Street protests too hot lah!


Why are almost all new music releases today released with Music Videos? Visibility, the using a more of an audiences senses (e.g., eyes & ears) to more rapidly immerse one into a certain frame of mind or thinking pattern. Why do people go to the concerts when they can listen on the radio or watch MTV? Personal reaction using two senses are great, being in the presense of the event live brings yet another sixth sense into play - the "Passion" you spoke about. The visual media is the strongest media. This is what made Ronnie Regan and Fornicating Bill so effective while in the whitehouse, they used the visual media to their advantage. Of course it can backfire as well when you get a dumba$$ in office like Dubya. Why do presidents or prime ministers go on whistlestop tours around the country during the elections and press palms and kiss babies? Same thing. Utilize more of the senses and "passion". Yes, I agree, that when "passions" run high, things may well get out of control but that's when you find out just how unhappy people are. As long, as Bricelow said, they use the negative reinforcement methods and you all accept it, then as the country continues to take and take and favouritise certain segments of the populations you will all have this idea that it's in your best interest because has been imprinted on you from birth (I hate the term brainwashing but for lack of a better word, that's what it amounts to.......conditioned from birth to accept it. "Daddy is not to be Questioned!")

Effective.....Yes! Debatable......No.....it's proven. It was the demonstrations that broke segregation in the '60s, it was demonstrations that ousted Marcos, it has been demonstrations that have been instrumental in most of IMF/WB decisions world wide. Yes some have gotten out of hand, but ultimately, if more good than bad is effected then it's worthwhile.

What does pragmatic actually mean here? Other than a convenient excuse. Too hot, Maybe then, if that's true, Singapore shouldn't try to play with the "big boys then and continue to pee like a puppy" to again quote barczar. The big boys know it's effective.......

The government shot itself in the foot and that's why they are backpeddling so hard now with the IMF looking at the daily 'dire straits' yesterday and today. I predicted they would have to retract long before the convention started when they started on the banning statements. If for no other reason than for the ability to look magnanimous in the eyes of the local folks who are so conditioned and without reasoning power. The rest of the world sees it for what it really is.......

It's been awhile...... :cool: :wink:

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Sun, 17 Sep 2006 4:16 pm

Yes, quite a while. Debating muscles are weak. So I'll agree with everything you said, otherwise I have to think what to reply! :P

I really think most Singaporeans are not for or against protests. I think the majority just don't care. Sad but true. I'm all for peaceful protests as long as they don't delay my commute to work. When I'm retired and have nowhere to rush to, I may carry a few placards.

As for what the big boys think... they should already know that Singapore is paranoid. The external pressure to allow protests is probably a good thing as I can't imagine that pressure coming from within. Having said that, remember the Buangkok white elephants? I think that was brilliant and obviously some people had the guts to do it. There is hope yet.


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