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An Iraq Solution?

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Strong Eagle
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An Iraq Solution?

Postby Strong Eagle » Wed, 06 Sep 2006 6:59 pm

I got to meet Steve Forbes today, Chairman of Forbes. At a talk he gave he suggested that one way to stop the interal conflict in Iraq is to distribute the oil royalties directly to the people instead of the central government holding all the royalties for "infrastructure rebuilding".

This would accomplish several things.

a) People would have an incentive to see more oil produced and not less because it would mean more money... simple naked self interest.

b) It would permit Iraq to be essentially divided into Kurds, Sunnis, and Shites because they would all share oil wealth which is mostly in the hands of the Kurds and Shites.

c) It would stop government corruption in handing out billions of dollars in contracts.

d) It would allow infrastructure to be built from the ground up because people with money start businesses and they want to improve their environment.

I think it is an intriguing idea and I've never seen it brought up before.

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Re: An Iraq Solution?

Postby Wind In My Hair » Wed, 06 Sep 2006 10:48 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:I got to meet Steve Forbes today, Chairman of Forbes. At a talk he gave he suggested that one way to stop the interal conflict in Iraq is to distribute the oil royalties directly to the people instead of the central government holding all the royalties for "infrastructure rebuilding".

I'm just curious how this would happen. There must be a co-ordinating body to calculate, redistribute, and keep account of the royalties, and that means some form of government, perhaps a local tribunal? Or would the oil companies undertake this project and why would they want to? And would everyone get an equal share?

Sorry for all the questions, but I wasn't at the talk nor have I been following the politics of Iraq so I don't know enough to comment. But I'm quite interested in how an arrangement like that would work, and whether it could work in other countries too.

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Re: An Iraq Solution?

Postby ksl » Thu, 07 Sep 2006 12:04 am

Strong Eagle wrote:I got to meet Steve Forbes today, Chairman of Forbes. At a talk he gave he suggested that one way to stop the interal conflict in Iraq is to distribute the oil royalties directly to the people instead of the central government holding all the royalties for "infrastructure rebuilding".

This would accomplish several things.

a) People would have an incentive to see more oil produced and not less because it would mean more money... simple naked self interest.

b) It would permit Iraq to be essentially divided into Kurds, Sunnis, and Shites because they would all share oil wealth which is mostly in the hands of the Kurds and Shites.

c) It would stop government corruption in handing out billions of dollars in contracts.

d) It would allow infrastructure to be built from the ground up because people with money start businesses and they want to improve their environment.

I think it is an intriguing idea and I've never seen it brought up before.


The idea is very good, and I'm sure the people of Iraq, would welcome it, although it would not stop, the power struggle, the money would probably go to fighting, for power. To be honest with you its my opinion, there is no solution to solving this problem.

Like the UK and Northern Ireland, it took 30 years to get any kind of peace, but the problems are far from being solved.

I believe the internal conflict and power struggle, will cause much more bloodshed, unless there is fair represntation from all sedgments. they all hate eachother anyway, so they will settle for nothing less than an equal share of government, now that sadam is dethroned.

I agree the money should be put to good use, like development and support for all walks of life, at least for a year or two.

I think the people need to know what a good life they could have, with all that revenue.
But tribal leaders are tribal leaders, thugs, and criminals, they will not relinquish their power over their own people, so the distribution of wealth is kind of a dream.

It is probably the right way to go, but for sure they don't want the west involved.

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Re: An Iraq Solution?

Postby saturnia » Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:50 am

Strong Eagle wrote:I got to meet Steve Forbes today, Chairman of Forbes. At a talk he gave he suggested that one way to stop the interal conflict in Iraq is to distribute the oil royalties directly to the people instead of the central government holding all the royalties for "infrastructure rebuilding".

This would accomplish several things.

a) People would have an incentive to see more oil produced and not less because it would mean more money... simple naked self interest.

b) It would permit Iraq to be essentially divided into Kurds, Sunnis, and Shites because they would all share oil wealth which is mostly in the hands of the Kurds and Shites.

c) It would stop government corruption in handing out billions of dollars in contracts.

d) It would allow infrastructure to be built from the ground up because people with money start businesses and they want to improve their environment.

I think it is an intriguing idea and I've never seen it brought up before.


Good idea! Who is going to be responsible fo carrying it out? There is a deep rooted hatered amonst the sunnis, shiites and the kurds. They can't stand each others guts. How are they going to distribute these royalties in a fair or justifiable manner? The risk of corruption and bias creeping in are very high. Do you honestly believe that it is still possible to rebuild Iraq's infrastructure after what it has been through?

The best thing to do would be to relocate all Iraqis to America and all Americans to Iraq so they can have a taste of their suffering on daily basis. It is time they learnt that there is no difference between Bush and Saddam, both are one and the same. The only difference is one is a musslim and the other a fake christian.

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Re: An Iraq Solution?

Postby Plavt » Tue, 12 Sep 2006 3:27 pm

saturnia wrote:
Do you honestly believe that it is still possible to rebuild Iraq's infrastructure after what it has been through?


Why not? Germany, Japan, Korea and the British did after the second world war.

The best thing to do would be to relocate all Iraqis to America and all Americans to Iraq so they can have a taste of their suffering on daily basis. It is time they learnt that there is no difference between Bush and Saddam, both are one and the same. The only difference is one is a musslim and the other a fake christian.


Not only is this impratical, it is illogical since it is not simply a case of a difference between George Bush and Saddam Hussein. Iraq consists of different factions in a country whose culture is way different from America. Define a 'fake christian'.

Plavt.

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Postby riversandlakes » Tue, 12 Sep 2006 4:07 pm

Before I say the below, let it be known that most of you know where I stand and where I come from - I'm not a hater of anybody.

But have you forgotten that it is how American mendering in other peoples' lives/nations that got them into this mess in the first place? Remember Vietnam?
The real political/economical reasons for this war by Bush is another story all together.

Now who gave you the rights to demand that taxes from THEIR natural resource go to whom and whom? I think it's tad arrogant. Shall Malaysia demand that the US tax their super big oil companies MORE to give out to the American poor? Kind of unheard of, isn't it?
Goatboy will always cherish his former goatgirl.
But the world is full of fluffier ones.

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Postby saturnia » Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:22 pm

riversandlakes wrote:Before I say the below, let it be known that most of you know where I stand and where I come from - I'm not a hater of anybody.

But have you forgotten that it is how American mendering in other peoples' lives/nations that got them into this mess in the first place? Remember Vietnam?
The real political/economical reasons for this war by Bush is another story all together.

Now who gave you the rights to demand that taxes from THEIR natural resource go to whom and whom? I think it's tad arrogant. Shall Malaysia demand that the US tax their super big oil companies MORE to give out to the American poor? Kind of unheard of, isn't it?


Absolutely!!! :D

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Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:34 pm

riversandlakes wrote:Before I say the below, let it be known that most of you know where I stand and where I come from - I'm not a hater of anybody.

But have you forgotten that it is how American mendering in other peoples' lives/nations that got them into this mess in the first place? Remember Vietnam?
The real political/economical reasons for this war by Bush is another story all together.

Now who gave you the rights to demand that taxes from THEIR natural resource go to whom and whom? I think it's tad arrogant. Shall Malaysia demand that the US tax their super big oil companies MORE to give out to the American poor? Kind of unheard of, isn't it?


I think you miss the point. Right now, the American plan is that oil revenues will be collected by the so called government in Iraq and then distributed as the government sees fit to "rebuild" Iraq. It has been part of the American plan all along... that Iraqi oil revenues would rebuild the country according to a plan (guaranteed to fail, if you haven't noticed) that the neocons put together.

Where the money belongs is in the hands of the people. When people have money they spend it. Spending creates a tax base. It creates jobs. It creates a sense of common interest. Over and over again, it has been shown all over the world that when money is given to those it power it rarely accomplishes what it is supposed to. When the people are empowered directly, many good things happen.

You may not have noticed but we are talking BILLIONS upon BILLIONS of dollars here, enough to drag every Iraqi out of poverty. Instead, a handful of corrupt fat cats takes the money, and as you may have noticed, Iraq is still a heap of sh*t years after the invasion.

Current American policy is a total failure. You got a better idea than giving money to the people themselves so that they can make a difference in their own lives?

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Postby ksl » Wed, 13 Sep 2006 3:07 am

Strong Eagle wrote:
riversandlakes wrote:Before I say the below, let it be known that most of you know where I stand and where I come from - I'm not a hater of anybody.

But have you forgotten that it is how American mendering in other peoples' lives/nations that got them into this mess in the first place? Remember Vietnam?
The real political/economical reasons for this war by Bush is another story all together.

Now who gave you the rights to demand that taxes from THEIR natural resource go to whom and whom? I think it's tad arrogant. Shall Malaysia demand that the US tax their super big oil companies MORE to give out to the American poor? Kind of unheard of, isn't it?


I think you miss the point. Right now, the American plan is that oil revenues will be collected by the so called government in Iraq and then distributed as the government sees fit to "rebuild" Iraq. It has been part of the American plan all along... that Iraqi oil revenues would rebuild the country according to a plan (guaranteed to fail, if you haven't noticed) that the neocons put together.

Where the money belongs is in the hands of the people. When people have money they spend it. Spending creates a tax base. It creates jobs. It creates a sense of common interest. Over and over again, it has been shown all over the world that when money is given to those it power it rarely accomplishes what it is supposed to. When the people are empowered directly, many good things happen.

You may not have noticed but we are talking BILLIONS upon BILLIONS of dollars here, enough to drag every Iraqi out of poverty. Instead, a handful of corrupt fat cats takes the money, and as you may have noticed, Iraq is still a heap of sh*t years after the invasion.

Current American policy is a total failure. You got a better idea than giving money to the people themselves so that they can make a difference in their own lives?


Where the money belongs is in the hands of the people. When people have money they spend it. Spending creates a tax base. It creates jobs. It creates a sense of common interest. Over and over again, it has been shown all over the world that when money is given to those it power it rarely accomplishes what it is supposed to. When the people are empowered directly, many good things happen.

You may not have noticed but we are talking BILLIONS upon BILLIONS of dollars here, enough to drag every Iraqi out of poverty. Instead, a handful of corrupt fat cats takes the money, and as you may have noticed, Iraq is still a heap of sh*t years after the invasion.


No offense SE! I believe your statement to be quite true, although priorites do matter here! Tony Blair would have a fit, if he was to read this. Many Brits & Americans would agree, but lets be honest here, charity begins at home, yet we don't see America or the Brits helping their own people.

They are very good to criticise other countries for there failings, and i can also remember the times, when American sympathisers where also responsible for funding of the IRA. and the so called British government sold it's army out, all the poor souls, that perished and for what may I ask?

For the likes of internees to be recruited into government, for the sake of peace. I mean lets be realistic here, when one looks back the last 30 to 50 years, the families of the war dead and the innocent victims are the ones that suffer and are still suffering, for what, all governments have a double face, that's politics and none of them should be trusted, the people are conned every time, we vote them in.?

Political motives for the history books and martyrs of their own right! the people are just pawns, not even classified has human, in the eyes of all governments, and no matter what is done, the Middle East will never ever be a stable playing field, and will never be a friend of the west, it wasn't meant to be in my opinion.

The terrorist is only out to get the governments, because they are a law to themselves, power crazy and believe, they can ignore the opposition.

How can one ever expect to trust the distribution of wealth, when its never ever been controlable in Europe since the European treaty was formed, and the biggest offenders are the politicians, that are stealing the money, through illegal deals, trades, and god knows what else. curruption is not only in the Middle East. So the rich get richer and the poor still get sweet FA. Just my past observations the last 40 years.


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