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ksl
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Postby ksl » Sat, 03 Feb 2007 11:36 pm

you want to protect the small minority of credit card users that get into trouble and cannot pay their debt back because of sad and unforeseen problems. i don't think life is so black and white meaning a few people are fiscally irresponsible and run into problems or a few people are downsized and cannot find remployment fast enough. i'm not sure about the exact #s but i think the default rate is smalll perhaps around 10%. so you want to end all credit cards then because a few bad apples or a few people run into problems?


I think some of the discussion is dritfing a little, to credit cards and loans and blah blah blah! Huggybears reply is typical of the institutional "The Corporation" bible and will without a doubt remain on the banks side.

My beef is not only credit cards, it is the ethics and morals and lack of transparency. OOPS! No idea what happend, I posted before i had finished.

I think some of the discussion is dritfing a little, to credit cards and loans and blah blah blah! Huggybears reply is typical of the institutional "The Corporation" bible and will without a doubt remain on the banks side.

My beef is not only credit cards, it is the ethics, morals and lack of transparency, the link posted about the banks in UK making 4.5 billion in one year, is an example of the illegal findings, the underhanded treatment is appalling, and all the staff are part of the mechanics of the wheels in motion, and their is no way they are going to give it up.

I guess their are literally millions of people don't even check, their statements thoroughly, the odd pound service charge here, and there, what the hell does it matter if your on 60 grand a year, it's not even noticeable. Although if your on the lower income bracket, you will account for every penny and quirey every little pound deducted.

An example of when I transfered money from Halifax, to Asia, they quoted me 25 pound, When my statement came through 50 pounds was deducted... When I challenged them over the fees, they said, we don't have the facility to transfer the money direct, it must first go to another bank, and they want paying too!

Also 25 pound! Well you can imagine my reaction. My point is that banks are untrustworthy, cheat and steal, using their own guidlines, which if tested in Court, would be classified illegal, however I would say criminal, the judge wouldn't, probably because he's connected to the establishment (The secret society) Maybe the freemasons in UK, my point is they all piss in the same pot, just like the politicians, and cannot be trusted.

Although the people are the sheep, and the shepherds want their pound of meat ($$$$$$$)Greed! but who can blame them, not the sheep! They are to dumb, or being entertained with soaps and football.

Which at times i wonder if the majority of the UK are illiterate, and I always come up with the answer YES, they are, they must be, for putting up with it. or is it just so disorganised, like the idiots in government.

I mean how the hell can you not know, that your prisons are full!! Of course they have known for years! But who the fcuk cares, when they won't be in the next running, they have all milked the system one way or another, perks of the Job.

All the political pissheads do is swap and change, theres never been a democratic system in UK ever, and I don't see for one minute, how the UK citizens, the majority that is the working class cannot see it.

For all i care, they can take all the foreigners from the poor EU countries!
The big Conspiracy of the UK is a real one, believe me! I've rubbed shoulders with some of these judges in the freemasons over a whisky or two, personally I don't take it too hard, because i have always been in touch with some of the aristocrats of UK, through my military service.

I don't dislike the upper crust in our ranks, it's just one hell of a leap from the working class, and the chosen few that do run the UK, make sure it will never be a social democratic Country, and that's why they never fully went into the EU, without their carefully drawn up clauses.

A little like Singapore really, any real opposition or political threat to the organisation of the UK, would be removed, like Arthur scargill was, the power of money!

The UK like huggybear says, is being sold off, to the highest bidders, Institutions of all kinds are their to rip off, your assets, to gain more power.

Singapore is no different, only 40 years have gone by, eventually the same kind of legal system and framework of corporations Institutions will be no different in Singapore, strengthening the hold on the people.

Did you know, how much the Car insurance wanted in the UK for 3rd party, when i moved back from Europe. 900 pounds, because they say I was a higher risk, because i can drive both left and right hand drive cars, and that I travel often and was not a resident of UK for the last 3 years.

The 3 year, residence rule must kick in before you get cheap car insurance, so be warned.

All i did was go to another insurance company and not quite tell the truth, seeing that I owned property in UK, I claimed I was always resident.

I cannot say as i blame the people in the business, it is easy money, and the Banks have put in alot of effort in profiling, their clients, and fine tuning their procedures, although they are illegal in most cases, and they would probably give in, rather than go to court, like the link to the artical suggests. Bank overdraft fees in the dock!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4940250.stm

The 4.5 billion rip off!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6306857.stm
Last edited by ksl on Sun, 04 Feb 2007 12:54 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Postby lost_canuck » Sun, 04 Feb 2007 12:09 am

just a small note from me... Banks are the bloodsuckers of the world, however they have you by the tight and curlies. No credit, nada! and they only give you credit when you can't afford it.

Case in point I worked full-time, making fairly good money in Canada. Took out a small loan for a trip (I know duh!), They offered me a gold card to cover the cost, nice the interest rate is lower. Well anyway, paid that all off, and then got laid off work. They then upped my gold to platinum, A department store gave me a line of credit to $3500, my other bank upped my credit card to $9000. Like Hello???? I have no income, and like $20,000 in credit available to me????? Am I the only one that sees a flaw here?

Oh and in England I couldn't open a bank account other than the first one I opened, but they would offer me £25,000 loans unsecured. even tho I worked contract.

:???: :???:

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Postby ksl » Sun, 04 Feb 2007 1:10 am

lost_canuck wrote:just a small note from me... Banks are the bloodsuckers of the world, however they have you by the tight and curlies. No credit, nada! and they only give you credit when you can't afford it.

Case in point I worked full-time, making fairly good money in Canada. Took out a small loan for a trip (I know duh!), They offered me a gold card to cover the cost, nice the interest rate is lower. Well anyway, paid that all off, and then got laid off work. They then upped my gold to platinum, A department store gave me a line of credit to $3500, my other bank upped my credit card to $9000. Like Hello???? I have no income, and like $20,000 in credit available to me????? Am I the only one that sees a flaw here?

Oh and in England I couldn't open a bank account other than the first one I opened, but they would offer me £25,000 loans unsecured. even tho I worked contract.

:???: :???:
:D 25,000 unsecured loan! I can tell you I once had an acquaintance, that I learned to know, through my travels, he was a real charmer, quite a magnetic con artist disc jockey, a psychopathic liar, I was able too suss out on my first meeting with him.

He took much of the banks money, he drove around in his flash sports car, opening accounts, taking loans from one and transferring the loan to another, to raise larger loans, and so on. I have no idea if they caught up with him, he just disappeared, when some guys turned up to reclaim the flash sports car!

After a couple of months he phoned me up and said that he was in Australia, So I asked when he would be in UK, and he should give me his number, so he gave me this phone number in UK, it was quite funny really! Because he was telling me how he'd ripped off these banks and did a runner, when the coversation finished, I waited a while and decided to ring the UK number, and he picked up the phone, the first thing i said, was "Australia, isn't that far away after all"! ha!

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Postby lost_canuck » Sun, 04 Feb 2007 11:51 am

oh we considered the same sort of thing, but knowing my luck I'd get caught and extradited from any country I went to. Between the two of us we could have bought a REAL nice sailboat with no forwarding address ;)

Now I am not agreeing with what he did but what with banks declaring stupifying profits off my measly accounts, I don't feel sorry for their losses. They of course then say they charge me so much because of people like that, but then why are they not responsible for the money they have lent?

If I loan a friend money and they don't pay me back do I make my other friends buy all the drinks? ;)

I think it is time for the Banks to be held accountable for their actions, not me!!!

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Postby Plavt » Sun, 04 Feb 2007 3:37 pm

lost_canuck wrote:oh we considered the same sort of thing, but knowing my luck I'd get caught and extradited from any country I went to. Between the two of us we could have bought a REAL nice sailboat with no forwarding address ;)



I don't think so; in the UK debt is a civil matter; in the UK if somebody in debt disappears abroad for six years and can't be found it is simply written off. I have never heard of anybody being extradited for debt; the banks loss and it happens.

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Postby ksl » Sun, 04 Feb 2007 4:05 pm

Plavt wrote:
lost_canuck wrote:oh we considered the same sort of thing, but knowing my luck I'd get caught and extradited from any country I went to. Between the two of us we could have bought a REAL nice sailboat with no forwarding address ;)



I don't think so; in the UK debt is a civil matter; in the UK if somebody in debt disappears abroad for six years and can't be found it is simply written off. I have never heard of anybody being extradited for debt; the banks loss and it happens.


:D yes your right! and not only that, the UK have no prisons left vacant anyway :cool: although I still think the local council is jailing people over their poll tax debt. It's absurd that the government decentralised powers to local authority, the abuse of jailing people in debt is quite high i believe, because of the Council misuse of powers.

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Postby lost_canuck » Sun, 04 Feb 2007 4:37 pm

Plavt wrote:
lost_canuck wrote:oh we considered the same sort of thing, but knowing my luck I'd get caught and extradited from any country I went to. Between the two of us we could have bought a REAL nice sailboat with no forwarding address ;)



I don't think so; in the UK debt is a civil matter; in the UK if somebody in debt disappears abroad for six years and can't be found it is simply written off. I have never heard of anybody being extradited for debt; the banks loss and it happens.


things that make you go hmmmm :devil: *lol* course the hubby works for a british company and well he has family there, hmmmmmm Image

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Postby huggybear » Sun, 04 Feb 2007 10:56 pm

Lost_canuck...if you loan your friend $50 i'm sure you won't think twice about the loss...but if you loan them $25,000 and they go buy a new car and then default on you...i'm sure you would take other actions...at the very least you would never talk to them again.

banks are not involved in microfinance...it is too small for them (in this world of MEGA BANKING with citigroup, barclays etc.). and their systems cannot handle a loan of $5 to a villager in bangalesh who lives in a 100 sq ft mud hut with 15 of his closest family members. none of these people would even ever meet the requirements to take a loan from an established bank.

lost canuck...when banks look at credit they look at income history...not just what you make at this current moment. so if you had a good history of income then that's why they granted you credit.

scooby dooby doo. your wife has 12 credit cards? that's too much. her credit score is pretty pathetic. ur credit score will be very low if you don't have any credit cards (because you have no history), and be very low if you have too many...and 12 is way too many. i think 3-4 is always good. i have three and keep two in my wallet and one @ home for emergencies.

ksl i actually agree with you about the mass consumerism from advertising. that is why even as an american i hate the stupid bowl which is tomorrow. it's not about the game, it's about corporations trying to force you to buy their crap that they peddle. the game is anti climatic anyways and they figure out a way to stretch a game that should be 2.5 hours into a 5 hour spectacle.

as for banks...they are not a monopoly or oliogarchy such as OPEC. they don't all converge together to say "hey let's screw the consumer." so why not shop around and find the one with the lowest fees?

i just think banks provide valuable services and if used efficiently increase your quality of lilfe. there are many buffoons as previously pointed out that just impluse buy consumer goods that aren't necessary.

i subscribe to darwinism. survival of the fittest.

as for the UK debt problem? i'm not sure and i'm too tired to google it...but how much of that is from people stretching themselves to buy a house? maybe if you strip out housing as a debt that the 25% ratio would be lower?

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Postby huggybear » Sun, 04 Feb 2007 11:00 pm

oh and ksl. i'm not "defending" the banks.

if you don't like it, then find a bank you do like? stop complaing and do!

there are many many many banks in the world. and if you don't find one you like you could either:

A: start your own
B: store your money under ur bed (but then you'd have to rely on those dodgy check cashing services which have rates triple what banks charge you.

remember...banks as most corporations are FOR PROFIT entites.

they are in business to make money...not to satisfy the consumer.

in the states i believe there are not for profit banks...but they are usually small and don't have large networks.

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Postby Plavt » Sun, 04 Feb 2007 11:05 pm

huggybear wrote:
as for the UK debt problem? i'm not sure and i'm too tired to google it...but how much of that is from people stretching themselves to buy a house? maybe if you strip out housing as a debt that the 25% ratio would be lower?


The bad news for you is; of the documentaries I have watched mortgages rarely if they ever feature; in fact they are an asset for those who can afford to take one out an keep up payments for X number of years since the value of property invariably rises. This is one 'debt' that can be worth having and banks know it since the bank I am with will actually grant a mortgage until the age of 86! Suprising as it might seem it is no surprise since if you die before you pay they get the property - a nice little earner wouldn't you say?

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Postby huggybear » Mon, 05 Feb 2007 12:23 pm

you can't pass your assets to other people via your will?
then your descendants can decide whether to liquidate / keep your property...

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Postby lost_canuck » Mon, 05 Feb 2007 12:43 pm

huggybear wrote:Lost_canuck...if you loan your friend $50 i'm sure you won't think twice about the loss...but if you loan them $25,000 and they go buy a new car and then default on you...i'm sure you would take other actions...at the very least you would never talk to them again.

banks are not involved in microfinance...it is too small for them (in this world of MEGA BANKING with citigroup, barclays etc.). and their systems cannot handle a loan of $5 to a villager in bangalesh who lives in a 100 sq ft mud hut with 15 of his closest family members. none of these people would even ever meet the requirements to take a loan from an established bank.

lost canuck...when banks look at credit they look at income history...not just what you make at this current moment. so if you had a good history of income then that's why they granted you credit.


huggy: Nah if I loan a friend $50 and I don't get it back the bank of 'me' is closed. But if I lent them $25,000 and they never paid me back I would have them beaten senseless (just kidding)

But I know what you mean, but when you add up all those little micro accounts do they not amount to anything? except to profit, if it is all Mega Banking why are they charging me mega amounts for so little service? ;)

And as for the credit thing, trust me I know credit is based on history, I have gone from 'here we are taking back your card, and cutting it up, don't call us we'll call you, to as you have seen, here have heaps of money, gobs if you like, but we're going to charge you 19% interest!' which to me a micro account holder is almost usery! I know by definition it is not, but then again I am lucky to be very good with money, not having a lot but always having enough and knowing when to say no, I am an exception to the rule.

But there are people so far in debt there is no light at the end of the tunnel, banks don't care about the micro account holders, so when one claims bankruptcy they don't even flinch, but I bet the family does, for years. And sadly it is due to the fact that the cost of living is such that they have to live on credit. I recently saw a show on homeless in America (ok it was Oprah, nobody puke) But there are people working full-time jobs and having to live on the street, yet 'stars' want to save the children in africa, (which is not a bad cause) but it's time to look at our own streets. Canada, America, UK, even Singapore.

Anyway that was a small rant, now back to the topic. Never trust banks, it is true. use them to your advantage, but be responsible for your money, always keep track of it, and keep on top of the services offered.

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Postby Plavt » Mon, 05 Feb 2007 4:13 pm

huggybear wrote:you can't pass your assets to other people via your will?
then your descendants can decide whether to liquidate / keep your property...


In all honesty I don't know what criteria/restrictions they have in place as I won't be taking out a mortgage but I doubt if that is allowed. In any case somebody who wanted a mortgage would likely have their own not simply pick one up from somebody else.

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Postby Plavt » Mon, 05 Feb 2007 4:20 pm

lost_canuck wrote:
But there are people so far in debt there is no light at the end of the tunnel, banks don't care about the micro account holders, so when one claims bankruptcy they don't even flinch,



That is true; not being in the banking world I cannot claim to have much knowledge, however I know they are protected by indemity policies. I would hope most banks would realize that for some circumstances will change resulting in loss of income. The thing that stinks is the insurance policies that one can pay through the nose for which more often than not turn out to be useless. This of course is a con an one that is well known although the banks will deny it.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 05 Feb 2007 10:53 pm

Plavt wrote:
huggybear wrote:you can't pass your assets to other people via your will?
then your descendants can decide whether to liquidate / keep your property...


In all honesty I don't know what criteria/restrictions they have in place as I won't be taking out a mortgage but I doubt if that is allowed. In any case somebody who wanted a mortgage would likely have their own not simply pick one up from somebody else.


Unless one is an absolute idiot, one would normally have a mortgage insurance policy which is the cheapest "insurance" you can get. It's based on the declining balance of the mortgage and should something happen to you then it will pay off the mortgage in full. Most banks require you to maintain a mortgage insurance policy as a part of the loan agreement. My mortgage insurance policy was a lump-sum payment at the beginning while my wife had hers payable for 8 years of the 14 years mortgage. Payments will stop after this june's payment. This way, should either of us die the mortgage will be paid off in full, thereby not saddling the survivor with any payments at all, just a fully paid off home.


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