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Living Standard of Singapore.

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looking888
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Living Standard of Singapore.

Postby looking888 » Sun, 20 Aug 2006 7:19 am

(I have posted the same message in another forums).

I check out the condos in Singapore. The District 11 has many luxurious condos. They on Commonwealth and Dunearn. Some nice condos are La Suisse and Arcadia Garden. The ones of La Suisse cost more than 1 million SG dollars, but their sizes are suitable for Americans who like relatively large living spaces.

I wonder whether average Singaporeans themselves could afford this kind of luxurious condos. How many years they have to work in order to save so much money for housing? Most Westerners, unless their status is at least the upper middle class, will not be able to afford a condo of La Suisse.

I also would like to know the real standard of living of Singaporeans. I have been to Norway, which has the highest living standard in the world with a GDP of US$50000.
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Postby Strong Eagle » Sun, 20 Aug 2006 7:27 am

Listen, I live in an area of Singapore called Watten Estates... and I have the cheapest house in a neighborhood of semi-detached homes. Almost all of my neighbors are Singaporean Chinese or Indian.

So, like everywhere else, the "average" guy isn't going to own a two million dollar home. But Singapore is a rich country.... and you might be surprised... that little old lady down at the hawker center, selling three dollar chicken and rice everyday, may be going home in her Mercedes to a castle.

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Postby Strong Eagle » Sun, 20 Aug 2006 7:57 am

PS: GDP per capita doesn't tell the whole story about standard of living but it does give you some sense of how far Singapore has come in 40 years of independence.

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fa ... 4rank.html

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Postby jpatokal » Sun, 20 Aug 2006 3:58 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:So, like everywhere else, the "average" guy isn't going to own a two million dollar home. But Singapore is a rich country.... and you might be surprised... that little old lady down at the hawker center, selling three dollar chicken and rice everyday, may be going home in her Mercedes to a castle.

Alternatively, the little old lady down at the hawker center may be taking the bus home to her rented room in an crumbling HDB block, where she heats tins over a candle because she can't afford electricity. (You think I'm kidding? This is an actual example from a Straits Times feature on what happened to the famous samsui women who used to work in construction. Needless to say, they receive no pension, and the government in its grandmotherly kindness doesn't give a flip either.)

Reality for most Singaporeans lies between these two extremes. Most people are very well off compared to neighboring countries (especially the one to the south), but GDP stats aside, probably slightly worse off than the average European as they work harder for less. The real "losers" in Singapore are the unemployed, the disabled, the sick, the elderly and pensionless who rely entirely on the charity of their families -- if they have any, and these folks have it much harder than the average European in the same situation.
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Postby riversandlakes » Tue, 22 Aug 2006 10:46 am

There isn't enough land here for a castle.

Hearst Castle - now THAT'S a castle with LAND!
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Re: Living Standard of Singapore.

Postby Loops » Tue, 22 Aug 2006 12:24 pm

looking888 wrote:(I have posted the same message in another forums).

I check out the condos in Singapore. The District 11 has many luxurious condos. They on Commonwealth and Dunearn. Some nice condos are La Suisse and Arcadia Garden. The ones of La Suisse cost more than 1 million SG dollars, but their sizes are suitable for Americans who like relatively large living spaces.

I wonder whether average Singaporeans themselves could afford this kind of luxurious condos. How many years they have to work in order to save so much money for housing? Most Westerners, unless their status is at least the upper middle class, will not be able to afford a condo of La Suisse.

I also would like to know the real standard of living of Singaporeans. I have been to Norway, which has the highest living standard in the world with a GDP of US$50000.


you should talk to some Singaporeans if you want to know this. there are loads of boards like this in Singapore which have many more Singaporeans who visit than this one. There are Singaporeans who post here but with the the title being 'Singapore Expats', you're more likely to get a foreigner answering your question.

I'm a foreigner and I'll attempt to answer it, but I don't really know (not being Singaporean!). But yes, what Strong Eagle said, there are loads of Singaporean people who live in these big expensive condos and houses. I couldn't afford one, and I couldn't afford something similar back home. Not all expats are rich, not all Singaporeans are poor.

Loads of Singaporeans go to university, so it stands to reason that they'll get a decent job at the end of it, so I'm not really surprised that there are so many who can afford enormous houses and 3 or 4 cars.

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Re: Living Standard of Singapore.

Postby ksl » Thu, 24 Aug 2006 1:37 am

looking888 wrote:(I have posted the same message in another forums).

I check out the condos in Singapore. The District 11 has many luxurious condos. They on Commonwealth and Dunearn. Some nice condos are La Suisse and Arcadia Garden. The ones of La Suisse cost more than 1 million SG dollars, but their sizes are suitable for Americans who like relatively large living spaces.

I wonder whether average Singaporeans themselves could afford this kind of luxurious condos. How many years they have to work in order to save so much money for housing? Most Westerners, unless their status is at least the upper middle class, will not be able to afford a condo of La Suisse.

I also would like to know the real standard of living of Singaporeans. I have been to Norway, which has the highest living standard in the world with a GDP of US$50000.


https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fa ... os/sn.html anyone can play around with statistic


Labour force of Singapore, Norway and Denmark are quite close to eachother, GDP 28000$ Sing, Norway 43000$ Denmark 34000$

If one looks at the CHICKEN HUTS OF THE UK, I would say Singaporeans are much better off!!! Rip off Britain, never changes, and never will until the people realise, that they are living in a totalerism society. Maybe its all to late for that, since 5 million brits have left, and 500,000 eastern block migrants a year, are signing on the dole, waitng for the chance to work on minimum wage.

Amazing Singapore can be built in 40 years, and the UK never really got off the ground in 200 years. But many got rich, right!

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Postby earthfriendly » Sat, 26 Aug 2006 2:56 am

Over 80 % of Singaporeans live in HDB flats. They are the most affordable form of home-ownership to most Singaporeans.

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Postby earthfriendly » Sat, 26 Aug 2006 3:14 am

Strong Eagle wrote: and you might be surprised... that little old lady down at the hawker center, selling three dollar chicken and rice everyday, may be going home in her Mercedes to a castle.


Don't know about the castle part but most Singaporeans probably heard of one wealthy hawker, one time or another. The rumour I heard was the man selling Chinese fritters (yu tiao) at the hawker center. At the end of the day, he would drive off in his mercedes. You have to be good at what you do though. Need plenty of customers to help pay that Mercedes.

It is really amazing considering how much they charged for those fritters. 5 for a $1 (?). Can't imagine how many fritters he had to sell :shock: .

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Postby ksl » Sat, 26 Aug 2006 8:40 am

earthfriendly wrote:Over 80 % of Singaporeans live in HDB flats. They are the most affordable form of home-ownership to most Singaporeans.



Home ownership I believe is over 90%

here are some statistics,
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/keystats/mqs ... population

I've not bothered checking them, although i have seen some statistics before showing home ownership at 94% in Singapore

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 26 Aug 2006 9:07 am

If you look at it from a realistic POV all those living in Government Subsidised HDB Flats do not really qualify for "Owned Homes" as they only have 99 year leases and the government can chase you out if they feel like building an industrial estate or parking lot where you are living and pay you whatever they please (no HDB flats have 999 years or Freehold leases) The only ones were the 17 estates under the old HUDC which were converted to private a number of years ago (about 15 years ago I think). Also, what kind of home ownership is it when you cannot sell your home unless the buyers skin is the right colour. So for statistical purposes, yes you could say they own their homes, but to be honest ........

:roll:

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Postby earthfriendly » Sat, 26 Aug 2006 10:29 am

Yes that's the unfortunate outcome of SG public housing projects. Minority group will have a smaller pool of buyers if they want to resell their flats. This is due to their quota system.

"Singapore maintains a quota system of ethnicities within the HDB program. There are strict requirements as to who can move into an HDB flat, based on whether they are Chinese, Indian, Malay, or another race. Singapore maintains that there must be a certain ratio of ethnicities within the complex, and any move-in or move-out must adhere to this policy. The HDB declares that this is to promote homogeny amongst Singapore's diverse population, in order to prevent racialism and racial segregation and preventing heterogeneous racial blocks from forming."

If a person feels this puts him/her in a disadvantaged position when reselling, perhaps renting can be another option. Used to be harder to rent a flat but now the restriction more relaxed, there are more HDB flat choices available. One needs to weigh the pros and cons of renting vs ownership. From a financial point of view, you don't have to put up a lump sum up front when renting. And quite a few people I know end up selling their flats for a loss. Many Singaporeans have told me you can't make a profit out of residentail real estate. Unless you are one of the lucky ones like my parents who bought their flat 2 decades ago.

My sister sold her HDB flat for a loss and have been renting condominiums for many years now. Renting is not common for Singaporeans since home ownership is an intrinsic value. Probably due to govt. effort to encourage home ownership? However, I can't say the same for most countries. People in other countries (USA, Tokyo where prices are sky-rocket-high and may take more than one generation to buy the property) are very accustomed to the idea of renting.

As the HDB flats are subsidized by the govt. they are the one who gets to set the guidelines. These guidelines are there to promote values important to them e.g. racial integration and filial piety. An applicant will get preference if they choose to buy a flat close to their parents.

So yes, the housing project has its cons but it has also allowed many Singaporeans to have a place to call a home of their own. It also makes SG the highest rate of home ownership in the world. And if you talk to my mom, she would tell you she is grateful to the govt for providing affordable flats with modern amenities.

Above quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_an ... ment_Board

The website provides good overview of the HDB flats.

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Postby Close Encounter » Sat, 26 Aug 2006 9:02 pm

If I were to sell our chicken hut here in the U.K, I still will not be able to afford a private condo in District 11. District 9, 10 & 11 is the heart of the city centre, trying to buy a property in these areas is like trying to buy a property in the middle of London. The further you go from city centre, the cheaper the property.

After saying that, I still think private property in Singapore is *bloody expensive* (excuse my French) for what its worth. My sister lives in a landed property, cost her a bomb, like 1M+, but still only a 99 years leasehold. Cheaper to just buy a tent, IMHO .....

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Postby hei guess what » Mon, 28 Aug 2006 2:32 pm

It's important to differentiate between cost of living and standard of living.

I would say the standard of living in Singapore is very high in terms of education, healthcare, literacy, employment opportunities, home ownership, etc.

The cost of living is very high compared to its immediate neighbours but very affordable compared to Europe.

So long as you're educated, able bodied, hard working and law abiding, life here can be very rewarding.

8-)


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