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Permanent residency

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jugaad
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Permanent residency

Postby jugaad » Sun, 16 Jul 2006 3:40 pm

HI all

I need some help/info. We have recently moved to Singapore & are planning on applying for PR. We have a son & dont want him to do NS when he is 18 - hence want to find out if we (my husband & I ) can become PRs & put our son on some other visa? Is it possible? My son is only 2 yrs so am not sure if I can put him on a Student Pass right now.

All info/help is really appreciated.

Thanks
Jugaad

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sundaymorningstaple
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Re: Permanent residency

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 16 Jul 2006 9:34 pm

jugaad wrote:HI all

I need some help/info. We have recently moved to Singapore & are planning on applying for PR. We have a son & dont want him to do NS when he is 18 - hence want to find out if we (my husband & I ) can become PRs & put our son on some other visa? Is it possible? My son is only 2 yrs so am not sure if I can put him on a Student Pass right now.

All info/help is really appreciated.

Thanks
Jugaad


Why do you want to become a PR then? Just to milk the system? If you only plan on being here a few years, why are you taking up "Permanent Residence"? Hopefully, you plan to put your son through the international / private schools. Hope you also use the private hospitals.

You can put you son on a dependents pass and later on a students visa. Once he reaches majority or is no long a full time student he will need to leave the country or stay on his own merits (he won't have any merit however without experience). Hopefully, he will not fall in love with a local girl and hate you for not giving him the choice. You are attempting to live his life for him, you do realize that I hope.

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Re: Permanent residency

Postby jugaad » Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:15 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
jugaad wrote:HI all

I need some help/info. We have recently moved to Singapore & are planning on applying for PR. We have a son & dont want him to do NS when he is 18 - hence want to find out if we (my husband & I ) can become PRs & put our son on some other visa? Is it possible? My son is only 2 yrs so am not sure if I can put him on a Student Pass right now.

All info/help is really appreciated.

Thanks
Jugaad


Why do you want to become a PR then? Just to milk the system? If you only plan on being here a few years, why are you taking up "Permanent Residence"? Hopefully, you plan to put your son through the international / private schools. Hope you also use the private hospitals.

You can put you son on a dependents pass and later on a students visa. Once he reaches majority or is no long a full time student he will need to leave the country or stay on his own merits (he won't have any merit however without experience). Hopefully, he will not fall in love with a local girl and hate you for not giving him the choice. You are attempting to live his life for him, you do realize that I hope.



sundaymorningstaple thought this was an open forum where you could get inputs from others without them being spiteful or judgemental. You are welcome to your opinion as I am to mine.

If anyone has gone through this thought process & as some helpful info for me, please PM me.

Thanks

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 17 Jul 2006 6:15 pm

If you had bothered to read the second paragraph you would have seen that I've already given you the options available to you.

I was not being spiteful, it is an open forum and because of it I feel that people should know that unless they plan on Permanent residence then they should not take up limited allotments from those who genuinely would like to stay here for the long term. Nobody like to see anybody waste limited resources. be it water, trees, or PR allotments. I am sorry that you took offense. I meant for you to look inwardly at your real reasons for wanting "partial" PR.

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Postby einstein » Fri, 21 Jul 2006 2:30 pm

Hi Juagaad,

Im not sure I have the best answer for your predicament. Its a question of priority and clearly, the options you got ask for something in return (that is, yr son goes to NS). What some couples do is they still get the PR with their son included (PR also), and do not wait for the boy to reach the required age (my guess is 14y.o. to report to Mindef), and "withdraws" the boy's PR. This, to my value, is not fair but fair to many/some. In my case, I got a boy (6mos old) here and we just took a dependent pass for him until he reach 5y.o. and we'll send him home w/ his mom to live there. I agree with the concern that the kid should decide (wether he go NS or not) becoz it is not an easy responsibility and the child might blame you for this. YOu may wait until he can fully understand the situation (maybe 10 above?) and in the meantime, (1) let your hubby goes' first, or (2) get a dependent pass for the child.

Hope this help. :)
Einstein

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jpatokal
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Re: Permanent residency

Postby jpatokal » Thu, 27 Jul 2006 8:19 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Why do you want to become a PR then? Just to milk the system? If you only plan on being here a few years, why are you taking up "Permanent Residence"? Hopefully, you plan to put your son through the international / private schools. Hope you also use the private hospitals.

Blame the Garmin for allowing this then, not the OP for being smart enough to take advantage of it. I'm a PR too, and it'll be a cold day in hell before you see any of my (hypothetical) kids doing NS in Singapore.
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Postby Matney » Thu, 27 Jul 2006 8:33 pm

I'm confused, so help me out here, please. Why would a newly arrived expat wish to become a PR without first experiencing the little red dot? I've been here 21 months and haven't even considered PR yet.
I, too, have a male teenager so I must consider carefully. I think NS would do him a great deal of good, but I also think it should be his choice and be forced to do it.
What exactly are the basic reasons for taking out PR? What are the benefits?

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Postby jpatokal » Thu, 27 Jul 2006 8:45 pm

Matney wrote:I think NS would do him a great deal of good, but I also think it should be his choice and be forced to do it.

People who haven't been to NS tend to have a terribly romantic view of it -- I'd suggest a candid chat with a Singaporean.

What exactly are the basic reasons for taking out PR? What are the benefits?

Major benefit is independence -- you're no longer tied to one employer and it's eg. very easy to start your own company. You also get access to a bunch of Singaporeans-only stuff like new HDB flats, subsidized medical insurance, etc.

Downsides are that you must pay CPF (if you have a local income) and that your kids will be liable for NS. However, if your son is already old enough he may be able to stay on (for some time) as your dependent without becoming PR himself -- perhaps somebody can fill in the details of what and when the requirements/deadlines are?
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 27 Jul 2006 10:54 pm

JP,

I don't think I've got a romantic view of NS. If anything I have a more pragmatic viewpoint. (As a 'Nam Vet - the romanticism was gone long, long ago).

Pragmatic. Have you seen the average male today in the US? What a crock of Shite! Absolutely worthless. Today's kids here in singapore are not much better. Pansyarses mostly, raised by maids and aircon and given tons of pocket money instead of doing chores around the house to help earn it. Life on a silver platter. Granted NS is a virtual skate in the park compared to what it probably was years ago. But I still feels it is a necessary part of every young persons life (if I had my way girls would do it as well like they do in Israel).

Matney,

JP has given you a nutshell of the basic of advantages of PR over EP's. The only thing I would interject is I look at it from the reverse viewpoint (maybe it's the male in me) I would hate to have to force my son to leave singapore because I made his choices for him while he was too young to have a say. Just think, he may fall in love with a Singaporean Girl but due to her family/career/whatever, she cannot leave Singapore. He would have to because you took away the choice for him. If he does NS, it will build character (whether or not you think so - I know!) and he will have a choice whether to stay a PR give it up or even take up citizenship should he so desire. The best of all worlds and a bit of survival skills and discipline thrown in for good measure. My son and I have discussed this for years and next year he will be starting his NS (he turns 17 in about 2 weeks). He is in favour as he has a girlfriend for the past couple of years and doesn't like the thought of leaving her, etc., etc.

Of course all this is just my personal viewpoint. :wink:

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Postby jpatokal » Sat, 29 Jul 2006 5:21 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Pragmatic. Have you seen the average male today in the US? What a crock of Shite! Absolutely worthless.

This is the lament of every generation -- but why do you think NS would help? I have no doubt that an actual war makes men out of boys, but from my experience serving in peacetime it serves more to make boys out of men again. If anything, to me it seems pretty obvious that two and a half years of unquestioningly obeying orders in NS is a pretty big reason for why Singaporean men are such pansyarsed milquetoasts.
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 29 Jul 2006 5:40 pm

jpatokal wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Pragmatic. Have you seen the average male today in the US? What a crock of Shite! Absolutely worthless.

This is the lament of every generation -- but why do you think NS would help? I have no doubt that an actual war makes men out of boys, but from my experience serving in peacetime it serves more to make boys out of men again. If anything, to me it seems pretty obvious that two and a half years of unquestioningly obeying orders in NS is a pretty big reason for why Singaporean men are such pansyarsed milquetoasts.


It's only about 22 months now. I guess you are going to tell me you learned absolutely nothing during your tenure? Or still carrying a grudge because you could not escape it? Obeying orders is commanded from all soldiers in any country's army not just Singapore. The milquetoasts got that way from the maids and money thrown at them to hopefully instill the fact that they must return the favour to their parents when the parents get old. The filial piety crap that holds little water with GenX or Y.

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Postby jpatokal » Sat, 29 Jul 2006 6:05 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:It's only about 22 months now. I guess you are going to tell me you learned absolutely nothing during your tenure?

Oh, I learned lots of things, like how to skive from your duties and not get caught, how to jam the wheels of the machinery to your own advantage, and how unquestioningly people (including myself) will follow any command given to them if sufficiently cowed. I also lost the remaining shreds of my respect of authority (not, alas, a good thing for living in Singapore), migrated out of the country that made me waste a year of my life and resolved to never put my own kids through anything similar again.

If you want to teach your kids discipline, why not frame them for a crime and put them in jail for a year? The end result would be pretty much the same, except the life skills they learn in prison would probably be more useful. But true discipline comes from within.
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