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Public beating. Apathy / ethnic intolerance / cowardliness?

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Public beating. Apathy / ethnic intolerance / cowardliness?

Postby ./. » Fri, 02 Jun 2006 12:15 pm

Taken from the other board.

What would prevent an entire bus load of passengers and a bus driver from stopping an assault that could 'potentially' lead to murder? I hop the police will be forced to act.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 02 Jun 2006 12:38 pm

"Who Nose?" Are you the same?

Welcome to the board. I'd like to respond to your posting but at the moment haven't any time so may have to wait till evening.

sms

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Re: Public beating. Apathy / racism / cowardliness?

Postby whatalark » Fri, 02 Jun 2006 2:38 pm

./. wrote:Taken from the other board.

What would prevent an entire bus load of passengers and a bus driver from stopping an assault that could 'potentially' lead to murder? I hop the police will be forced to act.


This is sickening. To hear someone's cries of pain and to still choose to ignore his distress is unspeakably inhuman. If Singapore was ruled by fascist dictators or someother warped government I could understand people's fear to intervene, but it isn't.

I am grieved by this personally, somehow... I'm not Singaporean and not Indian but this broke through the old armour and it feels like humanity has been diminished. I hope that young Singaporeans still in school learn to hold a mirror to their souls rather than their faces and fix their insides rather than their eyelids and noses.
no trees were hurt in the making of this post but a few electrons were terribly inconvenienced

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Postby ./. » Fri, 02 Jun 2006 7:39 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:"Who Nose?" Are you the same?

Welcome to the board. I'd like to respond to your posting but at the moment haven't any time so may have to wait till evening.

sms


SMS, it is I! :^o :)

Thanks for the welcome! :beer:

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Postby ./. » Fri, 02 Jun 2006 7:43 pm

Whatalark I am puzzled why the writer and her friend did not insist that the driver call the police, or do it themselves. Surely the bus company trains it's drivers' responses in such situations?

If they don't train drivers, perhaps it is time they paid more attention to these basics, especially given the number of drills they have for the general public (who are apparently smarter without any training).

If they do train the drivers, then the lack of ANY response should be very troubling...

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Postby Plavt » Fri, 02 Jun 2006 8:00 pm

./. wrote:Surely the bus company trains it's drivers' responses in such situations?


If they do train the drivers, then the lack of ANY response should be very troubling...


This is extremely unlikely since bus drivers are paid to drive buses and are advised to stay out of such disputes/incidents (in the UK at any rate which shields many its drivers with plastic shields and equips many vehicles with radios in some cities). I am sorry to say the situation you describe is all too common around the world. People just do not want to get involved, they are too concerned with themselves overlooking the fact if they had joined in thwarting the attackers assault they may have spared another human being the agony he endured.

However, in the days of mobile phones so common in Singapore as many other countries as you rightly say somebody could have called the police.

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Beating

Postby whatalark » Fri, 02 Jun 2006 10:33 pm

./. wrote:Whatalark I am puzzled why the writer and her friend did not insist that the driver call the police, or do it themselves. Surely the bus company trains it's drivers' responses in such situations?


I suppose the immediate response needed was active direct intervention? Calling the police after disabling the assailant would be the next step that would occur to me, if I was involved. Provided, of course, that I don't go into shock over the whole horrible incident.
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 02 Jun 2006 11:21 pm

Okay, My honest take on this article.

First of all near the end of her article "Did I rush to the worker's aid only because of the apperance of similarities in racial origins? I would like to think not.


In her first paragraph she very pointly made it know that the majority of the passengers were Chinese. (Why not just say Elderly unless she harbours feelings herself? Food for though only. This is not what I believe in this case but if someone wanted to debate it would be good place to start.

First of all, the bus driver should have driven the bus to the nearest police post if possible. It would not do him any good to confront the perpretrator as maybe get harmed him/herself in the process. Agreed someone should have called the police (even the bus driver has communications with the depot and they could have relayed the message. I feel the bus driver should be reprimanded good and proper.

If the bus WAS filled with elderly chinese and tired women what good would they have been able to do? If the article writer and friend were the only able-bodied persons on the bus then this article should probably not been written at all They were obviously young adults and would appear to be about 19 or 20 maybe a little older.

I don't think apathy had anything to do with it at all. It is a combination of the facts as discribed above, the fact that people don't/won't get involved (apathy means they don't care - they may well care) because of fear of harm themselves. I have found the around the world, people are getting more and more inward looking. IN the US for instance it is rare today for a bystander to help an accident victim. It is not because they don't want to, it's because in the US you may end up getting sued for "causing further damage" if they find out you have substantial assets. It's sad what the would is coming to.

Here is a prime example of that which despite my most valiant efforts still could not save a suicide victim (torched himself) about two years ago in the playground outside of my 2nd HDB story flat. I was able to keep him alive until the police & emergency medical personnel arrived and took him to SGH. The family still stays in touch because they were able to see him before he succumbed to his injuries about 8 hours later. It was like a sideshow how everybody was hanging out of the windows at 2:30-3 am in the morning while I tended to a middle aged gentleman alone with 95% burns. Oh, as I am caucasian and live in an HDB flat, you have and 80% chance of guessing his ethnic group. Did that matter? Not to me. Everybody else? No idea. But not one sole offered any help. Singapore has long been noted as being a pragmatic society. they'll give money, but don't ask them to contribute of ourselves. That said, I have noticed a bit of the "spirit" in some of the younger generation. I still hold hope that this country can redeem it's loss of morals. This article seems to further prove my observation about some of the younger generation will to DO!

Oh yes, one other paragraph struck me as well:

Did the others in the bus dismiss his plight because because he wasn't our equal?


[RANT]

We are in a country where you can get fined if not belted up in the back seat of a taxi! But! You can cram 12-14 foreign workers unbelted into the rear bed of a light truck without even a seat or covering against the elements? Let alone a seat belt. The government makes the rules, you tell me if they think they are our equals. If the government doesn't think they warrent treatment as human beings then prey tell why should Singapore citizens do so?

[/RANT]

sms

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Fri, 02 Jun 2006 11:54 pm

agree with Plavt and SMS that it's fear rather than apathy at work.

sundaymorningstaple wrote:as I am caucasian and live in an HDB flat, you have and 80% chance of guessing his ethnic group.

i'm a little slow on the uptake tonight. what has your being caucasian have to do with his ethnic group? going by probabilities he should have been chinese but the tone of your post suggests he was indian / malay. please shed some light as i'm feeling dim.

sundaymorningstaple wrote:We are in a country where you can get fined if not belted up in the back seat of a taxi! But! You can cram 12-14 foreign workers unbelted into the rear bed of a light truck without even a seat or covering against the elements? Let alone a seat belt. The government makes the rules, you tell me if they think they are our equals. If the government doesn't think they warrent treatment as human beings then prey tell why should Singapore citizens do so?


agree, it's sad.

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Postby riversandlakes » Sat, 03 Jun 2006 4:03 am

It is indeed shocking. I cannot speak for others and the bus driver on why they did not step in to prevent the barbarism.

Seriously, I would have and the madman might have turned on me. Reminds me that I need to again take up my stranded karate...
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Postby earthfriendly » Sat, 03 Jun 2006 2:40 pm

This reminded me of a friend who came to the USA about 17 years ago as a foreign student. She was unfamiliar with the bus system and boarded a bus with insufficient fare. The bus driver had to explain it to her and she was lost as to what to do. She was put in a spot and all the passengers' eyes were on her. She felt so embarassed.

After much deliberation, a black lady passenger stood up and offered her money to pay for the fare difference. She was so grateful. She felt a "loss of face" over this incident. She also came to understand a part of the American culture. Americans are very independent and they expect people to understand the requirements and abide by them. When she boarded the bus ill-equipped with the appropriate fare, she could have appeared like a bum to them. She also commented that in Asia, there would be many people who would chip-in in a heartbeat. She concludes that blacks in USA are more forgiving in a situation when someone makes a boo-boo.

My point is, every country has its own "bus" culture. But where do you draw the line? It is unsettling to read that so few people in the bus are motivated to help out another soul who is physically harmed. If I were one of the passenger in that bus, I would probably go into shock for sometime. I would then become very relieved to see a good samaritan jump to the victim's aid.

[quote="sundaymorningstaple"]


[RANT]

We are in a country where you can get fined if not belted up in the back seat of a taxi! But! You can cram 12-14 foreign workers unbelted into the rear bed of a light truck without even a seat or covering against the elements? Let alone a seat belt. The government makes the rules, you tell me if they think they are our equals. If the government doesn't think they warrent treatment as human beings then prey tell why should Singapore citizens do so?

[/RANT]

I noticed that the road safety laws are much more stringent in the USA then in SG. Apparently the law regarding passengers riding on the back of the lorries has not changed. When I was a little girl, me and my cousins used to ride on the back of my auntie's lorry, fully exposed to the elements and stares of bypassing traffic. Once I reached secondary school, I stopped doing that. Call me a snob. I consider it improper for a lady to be seen riding on the back of the pickup truck. Imagine all the stares and unwanted attention. The truth is most Singers will not be caught dead in that situation either.

And not to mention how complacent Singers are about road safety issue. The seatbelt law is not enforced strictly. Many Singers do not seem to understand the importance of seat belts. It drives me nuts to see my nieces and nephews riding in the car unbuckled as they thought the seat belts too uncomfortable. And the fact that human-jamming is still in practice. In the old days, few of us kids (aka victims) would have to sit on the laps of grandma or aunties as we have to fit 7 or more passengers into a car that is really designed to transport 5 passengers. I still see Singers doing it. This practice is still kept alive in our family when I visit them. However, I am no longer the victims here but my daughters are :oops:, much to the chagrin of my SO . What to do? When in Rome ..........

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Postby Fantastic » Mon, 05 Jun 2006 5:34 pm

Why would any grown up man let his head be slammed against a window and kicked in the face, without trying to at least fend off the assailant and protect himself? (Did he?)

What went through his mind and his life?

And no one had a phone to record the whole episode?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSHziqJWYcM
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beating

Postby Guest » Mon, 05 Jun 2006 7:47 pm

Fantastic wrote:Why would any grown up man let his head be slammed against a window and kicked in the face, without trying to at least fend off the assailant and protect himself? (Did he?)

What went through his mind and his life?

And no one had a phone to record the whole episode?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSHziqJWYcM


I asked a Cambodian the same thing when I heard about the Killing Fields. How could a whole nation allow itself to be massacred without fighting back? He blamed it on conditioning and subversion and mistrust of his neighbours.

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Postby Bafana » Tue, 06 Jun 2006 8:18 pm

Thank you for posting this article.

Over the eyars that I have lived in Singapore I have seen a lot of mistreatment of foreign workers - particulayr maids. This mistreatment being psycholgical and not physicl in nature (just as bad or worse maybe).

It seems to me that Singaporeans have a lot of pent up energy and no release for it and they turn on those they think they can get away with it on. This goes for white collar workers as well when sacrificial ang mos are used to take the blame or abuse from a client.

Once again thanks for the post.
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Postby EADG » Tue, 06 Jun 2006 10:21 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:If the bus WAS filled with elderly chinese and tired women what good would they have been able to do? If the article writer and friend were the only able-bodied persons on the bus then this article should probably not been written at all They were obviously young adults and would appear to be about 19 or 20 maybe a little older.

while we don't know what really happened, the passengers on Flight 93 and maybe the others rose to the occasion, I know I would if I were on that bus, and if I were too old to physically intervene I certainly would have said something, especially if the perp were one of my own kind

I mean really, how could you not?

the shame I hope those pasengers are feeling, that's the kind of thing that lives with you to the end

but there must be more to the story....
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