Philosophical musings

[Wind In My Hair]

Dear WIMH,

...and the Law is mankind’s desperate and imperfect attempt to achieve but the slightest sense of justice....

not sure what you're getting at Oriental. if you're venting there are a dozen other threads going already where you could do that. if you're talking about the philosophy of law (jurisprudence) that's a very intriguing field which i would be happy to discuss.

Take for example stress, as an emotion. The symptoms of stress can be hair loss and hair gain - depending on which way our hormones work. So, the brain can have the ability to control the levels of stress we feel. We can increase stressful thoughts to increase hair loss, or reduce stressful thoughts to encourage hair retention. Same way we can increase and decrease our blood pressure and strain on the heart. Therefore, we can be responsible for actions.

exactly. good example.

But we do get into the area of mental illness here. If you are mentally disadvantaged and do not have full use of your brain, then are you immune to the 'consious justice circle'?

what's a conscious justice circle? yes i think there must be the capacity for choice for us to be held responsible. that's why insanity is a mitigating factor in a court of law. and just to get technical, none of us has full use of our brain. it is enough that we are aware.

Further more, The Law (Oriental) is based on religon. The 10 commandments and Islam, Buddism etc depending on where you are from. This is selective in nature. Man selects the stories or bits of a teaching that they feel is 'acceptable' for the society we choose to have. But I find it interesting that in Christianty, "he without sin cast the first stone' and justice is only served at gods hand. Yet we play the control game of taking power into our own hands to form a social norm/ social existance.... selective survival

can you imagine one person trying to enforce a law over another that he invented all by himself? on what authority would the other accept this shackle? no, god comes in very useful in this case for pre-democratic societies. if you believe that all men are equal then we must appeal to a higher authority to impose restrictions on another against his will.

But does the subconscious influence the conscious mind?

more than you know. i'm starting to understand how the subconscious has a greater power over our lives than the conscious.

I don't believe that we can stop the sympathetic nervous system from doing its' job.

what about suicide?

[Cheekybeek]

As the person commits suicide, if they jump of a building for example, they will continue breathing and feeling till they hit the ground. Whether they want to or not they will have the fight or flight response, their body will flow with adrenalin, they will have thoughts in their mind until they hit the ground. Then all control is lost. Suicide is not controlling one's life.

[earthfriendly]

Interesting thread considering the interests of my life include: philosophy, anthropology and literature.

Please note that this is all a matter of personal opinion and preference and I am not forcing this on anyone.

I find that the most efficient society or culture is one that is cohesive and homogeneous. If everyone is brought up with the same set of stringent values (at home and in school) and abide by the same social standards in the way they go about their lives, our daily lives will run smoother. There is no need to second-guess or trying to read the other person's intention. Everyone understands what the rules are and follows them. Each encounter will be predictable. We don't have to be on our guard all the time and just to ensure we don't get taken advantage of. Such society is possible when there is great social pressure to conform to the norms and protocol agreed upon by the members. And such agreement is only possible when there is a certain cohesiveness and meeting-of-the minds by the members of the society.

I deeply yearn for such a place on earth and would love to transport my whole family there to raise my two darling angels.

That said, there is a price to pay for such a society. If an individual does not conform to the standards or social norms, they are in for a rough ride. And sometimes, life can get so unbearable for these people that suicide becomes a viable option . I, for one, believe that I will fit in nicely like a piece in a jigsaw puzzle.

WIMH, hope I am not going off thread with my post. It is related to the topics you brought forth?

[Oriental]

Interesting thread considering the interests of my life include: philosophy, anthropology and literature.

Please note that this is all a matter of personal opinion and preference and I am not forcing this on anyone.

I find that the most efficient society or culture is one that is cohesive and homogeneous. If everyone is brought up with the same set of stringent values (at home and in school) and abide by the same social standards in the way they go about their lives, our daily lives will run smoother. There is no need to second-guess or trying to read the other person's intention. Everyone understands what the rules are and follows them. Each encounter will be predictable. We don't have to be on our guard all the time and just to ensure we don't get taken advantage of. Such society is possible when there is great social pressure to conform to the norms and protocol agreed upon by the members. And such agreement is only possible when there is a certain cohesiveness and meeting-of-the minds by the members of the society.

I deeply yearn for such a place on earth and would love to transport my whole family there to raise my two darling angels.

That said, there is a price to pay for such a society. If an individual does not conform to the standards or social norms, they are in for a rough ride. And sometimes, life can get so unbearable for these people that suicide becomes a viable option . I, for one, believe that I will fit in nicely like a piece in a jigsaw puzzle.

WIMH, hope I am not going off thread with my post. It is related to the topics you brought forth?

My opinion is that what you describe must be the most boring place in this Universe.

[Cheekybeek]

Was thinking Singapore was getting close to what you said. I guess some really strict muslim cultures would be that way for women at least...

[earthfriendly]

Unfortunately, SG is not conformistic enough for me. The fact that people walk in any o how fashion on the street, instead of an established rule like keeping to the left. Or perhaps there's a method to their madness . Hey, maybe that's the rule here...chaos. Hmmmm..............trying to convince myself there's enough social (not governmental) rules in SG.

Oriental, as you can tell, I am quite a boring and unadventurous person. I am not saying this with pride but it is the truth . I usually don't like surprises as I find it upsetting to my system.

[bushbride]

If it was chaos theory in action, then we would assume that there is no free will - is that correct? So, everything has a predetermined pattern and choice does not factor into the picture?

So could it be that religion is a social construct, suicide is a social construct etc that deliberately imposes a predetermined pattern of action, based on social acceptance.

BTW would like to note that as WIHM's OP states that this is a free flow of thought patterns. Is this a chaos system where free will/ free thought actually exists or a deterministic system based on 3 primarily thought patterns identified above.....

[bushbride]

Further more, The Law (Oriental) is based on religon. The 10 commandments and Islam, Buddism etc depending on where you are from. This is selective in nature. Man selects the stories or bits of a teaching that they feel is 'acceptable' for the society we choose to have. But I find it interesting that in Christianty, "he without sin cast the first stone' and justice is only served at gods hand. Yet we play the control game of taking power into our own hands to form a social norm/ social existance.... selective survival

can you imagine one person trying to enforce a law over another that he invented all by himself? on what authority would the other accept this shackle? no, god comes in very useful in this case for pre-democratic societies. if you believe that all men are equal then we must appeal to a higher authority to impose restrictions on another against his will.

I guess what I was getting at was more along the lines of inaccuracies and the narrowness of information choice and distribution. I am kinda getting at the idea of ‘error’ (that’s the statistical term anyways, not sure if there is a philosophical term for it).

Law is created from a ‘socially acceptable’ guidelines. These guidelines are also found in religions (all of them). However, archeology uncovers other religious versions and additional stories that what we popularly see in the current day. So neither the starting point for law (where I see it in most cultures as being religion) is fully and exclusively correct. In fact, there is a great deal of linguistic, archeological barriers in religion itself. If we were to believe in cause and effect, the absence or omitting of information creates a very different reality.

So at some point in history, someone decided to omit information and create a universal legal system. This subsequently is law of the state polarity with religion in its purest form, where religion has been used as the point of momentum from the state

…..errgggg I need a brain break this is doing my head in….

[Wind In My Hair]

EF, i think you would be in heaven in a nunnery (excuse the punnery).

BB, i can't keep up with you. how does chaos theory imply there is no free will? i would have thought it meant that the will is more far-reaching than we imagine, as the slightest variation in a decision / action has an infinite impact (like the decision to eat one teeny-weeny morsel more of cheesecake ends up in gaining pounds over the years )

never mind, i'll have some of my favourite choya tonight and read your posts again, it will probably make more sense then.

[Cheekybeek]

BB, i can't keep up with you. how does chaos theory imply there is no free will? i would have thought it meant that the will is more far-reaching than we imagine, as the slightest variation in a decision / action has an infinite impact (like the decision to eat one teeny-weeny morsel more of cheesecake ends up in gaining pounds over the years )

never mind, i'll have some of my favourite choya tonight and read your posts again, it will probably make more sense then.

I agree with you on that one WIMH. Chaos- every action has a reaction that ends up in a big chain reaction affecting you and evryone around you and one small decision can change the rest of you life. I think BB must be thinking of fate.

[Wind In My Hair]

BB, you posted a very good reply that i read and wanted to read again to digest. pity the post was lost in the recent server crash. if it's not too much trouble and you can remember, could you please post again?

[Bart]

BB, i can't keep up with you. how does chaos theory imply there is no free will? i would have thought it meant that the will is more far-reaching than we imagine, as the slightest variation in a decision / action has an infinite impact (like the decision to eat one teeny-weeny morsel more of cheesecake ends up in gaining pounds over the years )

never mind, i'll have some of my favourite choya tonight and read your posts again, it will probably make more sense then.

I agree with you on that one WIMH. Chaos- every action has a reaction that ends up in a big chain reaction affecting you and evryone around you and one small decision can change the rest of you life. I think BB must be thinking of fate.

Butterfly effect?

[Wind In My Hair]

Bart, it's really hard to think with your constant mooning. talk about chaos! every time you flash, imagine all the ripples it sends out into the universe...

[Bart]

Bart, it's really hard to think with your constant mooning. talk about chaos! every time you flash, imagine all the ripples it sends out into the universe...

Flattered that I've got that effect on you
I can offer a partial or full frontal as well for effect!
Game?

[bushbride]

BB, you posted a very good reply that i read and wanted to read again to digest. pity the post was lost in the recent server crash. if it's not too much trouble and you can remember, could you please post again?

WIHM, Thanks for the compliment. I am a little annoyed that it was deleted, because it is very difficult to remember. My brain today has been distracted by a girlfriends' recent wedding and how stunning she looked as always...

I will try again when I refresh my brain on the last posts and see what I can do. May take alittle time though.