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Wind In My Hair
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Heart

Postby Wind In My Hair » Wed, 05 Apr 2006 1:45 am

some words from me and then i'm pretty much done with this forum. thanks to those who pm'ed me. i've been staying away from the forum, popping in now and then but with no desire to post anymore. the disappearance of a poster from an online forum is no biggie in the larger scheme of things, but for those who bothered to wonder, i'd like to state once and for all why i'm leaving.

for over half a year i've put up with the constant bashing of singaporeans, with all the patience and good humour i could muster. baseless generalisations were bad enough. but when specific incidences of displays of courtesy by singaporeans were poo-poo'ed as impossible for no other reason than that the people involved were singaporean, this forum started to lose its heart, for me.

and now look at some of you, ripping into posters whose only unintentional sin is that their english is not perfect. in my book your deliberate cruelty is a far greater sin. there are people behind those anonymous nicks, and people have feelings. you should know. some of you very same posters have gone into a pout before when we locals gently pointed out some of the mistakes expats make with local names or colloquialisms.

i suspect the only reason i survived this long here is that i speak decent enough english to pass off as vaguely intelligent, such is the shallowness with which some of you judge others. not all of you are like that, thankfully. and at this point i would like to thank especially...

ringo100 - i don't know why but your post in the singapore art market thread moved me enough to make me write this final post when i'd all but given up on this forum and didn't think it even worth saying goodbye. suddenly i like you very much! kudos to you for standing up for those being bullied.

sms - i'm as disappointed as you are. though we've never met somehow you've always known where i come from. i have the greatest respect for you. this forum is fortunate to have you as a moderator.

strong eagle - for having heart, something this place so sorely needs now. i know you will live up to your nick and provide the moral strength needed to lift this forum up from where it's fallen to lately.

carpe diem - i shall miss your witty posts very much, and your kindness even more. i hope we stay in touch.

sapphire - one of the few with the broadness of mind to see both sides of an issue. so refreshing in the midst of the mental myopia that prevails.

global citizen - probably the only one here who truly understands how i feel right now.

sorry if i didn't specifically mention some of the other good souls here. this post is already far longer than i'd intended, so i will end with this:

i've decided that i don't want to be part of this mean-spirited environment anymore. everyday i work with singaporeans who love their parents, their spouses and their children so much that they fight with everything they've got to build a better future for those they love. they have so much HEART. and believe you me, most also have far better social graces than what i often see here. and so, although they may speak poor english, i've decided to throw in my lot with them and spend all my free time with them chasing our dreams together, instead of hanging out here. this forum attracted my mind for a while, but the people you constantly ridicule here have won my heart. i'm with them.

:wave:

ps: vaucluse, congrats on TripleM. she is beautiful.

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Postby Saint » Wed, 05 Apr 2006 2:36 am

You will be missed Ma'am :cry:

I hope you may reconsider [-o<

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Postby earthfriendly » Wed, 05 Apr 2006 2:51 am

WIMH,

You make me all teary and I fully respect your decision. Please do keep in touch and I shall PM you my email address and perhaps we can get together when I pop in SG.

I am fully with you and like most SGean living overseas, I am very guilty of too much love for my fella men. Much as I dislike some of the tone of the posters when pointing out the fault of the SGeans, I also try to access the vailidity of their claims. Things like kiasuism and the lack of open public display of gracious manners (as opposed to Western chivalry) plus the taciturn nature of SGean chinese (I specifically pointed out Chinese as they are the most reserved and less verbal as compared to their Malay and Indian counterparts) make it hard for foreigners to see the goodness in us. And I can't really fault them for it since they are raised in a very different culture.

I find that it can be hard for foreigners to like the Chinese as they tend not to "be out there" and their quiet nature is to their own detriment. So many times I have dished out advice to my Chinese counterparts working in Silicon Valley to learn to "speak up" and stand up for themselves. I tell them to shed their reservation and learn to showcase and highlight their achievements to their bosses and coworkers, instead of quietly slogging away and burying their brains and head in their work. I tell them to socialize more. However, what they lack in social skills and manners, they more than make up for in substance. But then, I do not expect somebody outside of the circle to be able to "feel" the inner beauty within them. Qualities like benevolence and compassion are very much a part of the Chinese culture but it can be hard to see it amidst the kiasuism.

All that I said here is heartfelt. I am also speaking out of my experience from sharing the roof and bed with a western man, whom I believe is slowing understanding this particular aspect of my culture. He likes my family in SG very much.

It is ok to point out the ailments of a particular culture but it is not OK to do it unrespectfully. Can we all agree to on this :) ?

And here's my hug to you :console: .

Just like me, I think you suffer from too much love for your fella SGeans.

:wave:

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Re: Heart

Postby earthfriendly » Wed, 05 Apr 2006 3:30 am

Wind In My Hair wrote:

i suspect the only reason i survived this long here is that i speak decent enough english to pass off as vaguely intelligent,
:wave:



Not just with this forum but it is common here in Silicon Valley. It is undesirable to speak English with an accent, lest you be judged. But you know what, it is cool if you have a French accent. Indian or Vietnamese accent, I say sorry.

Worse of the lot are the East Asians (Chinese, Japanese and Koreans) for they can't even speak proper English since they don't really get to learn it in school back in their home country and their mastery of the language leaves a lot to be desired.

I guess I am lucky in that I was drilled and schooled in the English language back in SG. Luckier that I can usually speak English with an American accent. But to me so what, I am a chinese person inside through and through (ooops sorry for throwing out this little bit of personal information that is so uncalled for and you probably don't want/need to know).

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Postby Bubbles » Wed, 05 Apr 2006 4:02 am

Oh, WIMH, I can't believe you're going. I really, really hope you don't include me in the people who've upset you. I know you won't reconsider, but I wish you would.

I send you my very best, and will pm you my email. If you are ever in my neck of the woods I would be delighted to have you as a guest.

Take care.

I hate goodbyes.

Bubbles.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Dylan Thomas.

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Mary Hatch Bailey
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Re: Heart

Postby Mary Hatch Bailey » Wed, 05 Apr 2006 6:47 am

Wind In My Hair wrote:for over half a year i've put up with the constant bashing of singaporeans, with all the patience and good humour i could muster. baseless generalisations were bad enough. but when specific incidences of displays of courtesy by singaporeans were poo-poo'ed as impossible for no other reason than that the people involved were singaporean, this forum started to lose its heart, for me.


With all sincerity, I have always wondered what kept WIMH here so long. Her level of frustration has been palatable and I have always thought the headbanging against the brick wall emoticon was invented just for her. I was always stunned by her ability to pull herself up by her boot straps and plod on when the 'going' was so tough and slings of arrows were raining down.

Wind In My Hair wrote:and now look at some of you, ripping into posters whose only unintentional sin is that their english is not perfect. in my book your deliberate cruelty is a far greater sin.


My guess is, the Art thread is what she's referring to here. I didn't see any 'ripping' but again: it's not that LovelyBi's english is not perfect, it's the SMS speak, the general broadness of the question, the lack of answering specific questions, the inability to 'engage'. All this brings into fine focus why this community will always be frustrating to a soul like WIMH. Smart and epathetic, but forever miscontruing.

Wind In My Hair wrote:some of you very same posters have gone into a pout before when we locals gently pointed out some of the mistakes expats make with local names or colloquialisms.


Pout? In itself an insulting notion. But I say no, not a pout. When you stir the pot, expect it to bubble and burn you now and again. This illustrates the point beautifully: it was never about the spelling, or grammar. It's not that Sungei Buloh was spelled wrong, it's that WIMH chose to take the opportunity to shine the spotlight on a mistake in spelling, when we all do this all the time. For crying out loud: did anyone get on her case for thinking 'cos' is a word?


Wind In My Hair wrote:i suspect the only reason i survived this long here is that i speak decent enough english to pass off as vaguely intelligent, such is the shallowness with which some of you judge others.


Shallow? OK. Whatever. But it's all we have to go on. If people want to be better understood they might try putting a little effort into their posts.


Wind In My Hair wrote:i've decided that i don't want to be part of this mean-spirited environment anymore. everyday i work with singaporeans who love their parents, their spouses and their children so much that they fight with everything they've got to build a better future for those they love. they have so much HEART. and believe you me, most also have far better social graces than what i often see here.


Although her voice will be missed, and I, by no means think we'll be better off without her, I think this forum will never offer the spirit of communion WIMH craves. She offers a beacon of sanity in this sometimes crazy place and puts a very positive voice to the Singaporean mentality. But that must get tiring, always trying to point out what is good and right and wholesome in your homeland. She's the right voice but, ultimately, in the wrong place. I wouldn't last 5 minutes on a US expat board.


Wind In My Hair wrote:and so, although they may speak poor english, i've decided to throw in my lot with them and spend all my free time with them chasing our dreams together, instead of hanging out here. this forum attracted my mind for a while, but the people you constantly ridicule here have won my heart. i'm with them.


You always have been my dear. :wink:

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Postby Vaucluse » Wed, 05 Apr 2006 8:32 am

Wow, I go to bed early one night and look what happens.

WIMH has been sitting precariously on the edge for a while now, no surprise she has had a gutful and is leaving.
As Mary mentioned, I woldn't last one day on an expat in my home counrty, which ever that would be. I am however, also very defensive of Singapore as are most people here when an 'outsider' starts slagging off our second home - witness ADH in another thread.

Singlish, why not?

SMS-typing? Screw that for a laugh. No way, Na-ah, nein, non, njet and anything else.

Thank you,WIMH for your kind comment about TripleM and I wish you well.
......................................................

'nuff said Image

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Postby Kats_ » Wed, 05 Apr 2006 10:46 am

WIMH,

I have been to 6 schools and each time in a completely new location. I had to deal with a new language, new culture ...new everything all the time. Had to put up with all the mocking for a while till things settled down and I ALWAYS waited without complaining!

Looking back, I regret doing that; I was never bold to stand up against the class as I so wanted to fit in and didnt want them to shut me completely.

The mob characterism in this forum is prevalent everywhere! Trust me.

Time has taught me to ignore and adapt which is where I think I have failed. I have read some of your posts and have been inspired by your bold responses. SO, why quit now?

As much as I respect your decision I have been let down.

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Postby Carpe Diem » Wed, 05 Apr 2006 11:13 am

Image
La vie est trop courte, profitons de chaque instant

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Wed, 05 Apr 2006 1:16 pm

Bubbles wrote:I really, really hope you don't include me in the people who've upset you. I know you won't reconsider, but I wish you would.


Bubbs, you certainly haven't upset me, if upset is the right word at all. it's more sadness and a certain weariness. no, your posts are full of human kindness and i'm sorry if you thought i was pointing a finger at you.

same with those of you who pm'ed me. i was wrong about this forum losing its heart, i forgot how many good people there are here. in a nutshell, if any of you were decent enough to feel responsible and apologise for something you didn't do but thought you did, then it wasn't you. and i apologise for doing the very thing that i object to on this forum, ie paint the entire canvas black on account of a few black sheep.

and just in case anyone thinks i'm pissed off with Vaucluse because of an earlier thread, i am not. disappointed sometimes, yes. but he has a good heart and has my respect.

and Quasi, just for the record , the paediatrician observation is not singapore-bashing in my book. it is just that, a fair observation. it's when it degenerates into prejudiced and unsubstantiated slagging off that i have a problem. i share your disapproval of maids bringing up our children and am doing what i can, in my own way, to change that.


Mary Hatch Bailey wrote:All this brings into fine focus why this community will always be frustrating to a soul like WIMH. Smart and epathetic, but forever miscontruing.


misconstruing? others before me had objected to your post in the art market thread, which by the way was not the sole target of my earlier post. it was just that ringo's heartfelt response in that thread gave me the heart to say something. also mary, if i may say so, you're easy to misconstrue. i'm not sure if your reply to me was an olive branch or a patronizing self-defence and so will refrain from judgment.

Mary Hatch Bailey wrote:For crying out loud: did anyone get on her case for thinking 'cos' is a word?


no one did except you now, cos i have never thought 'cos' is a word and don't know where that screwball ('curve ball' in expat speak) came from. cos i write 'cos' for the same reason i don't bother to capitalise the first letter of the first word in each sentence. cos i'm lazy and type faster that way. cos i didn't realize abbreviations that the dimmest of people would understand would be a cause for small-minded nitpicking on a mature board like this. cos most people here are not like that.

Kats_ wrote:Time has taught me to ignore and adapt which is where I think I have failed. I have read some of your posts and have been inspired by your bold responses. SO, why quit now?

As much as I respect your decision I have been let down.


Kats, i appreciate your kind words and well-meaning challenge. i'm not sure how i've let you down, but certainly that is not my intention. why quit now? because i wake up everyday asking what good i can do before i go to sleep again, and i just think my time could be better spent elsewhere. with people who build up other people and not tear them down. anyway, never say never, so who knows, i may be back. but for now all i can say is i visit the threads and have zero desire to post or participate. was just going to disappear but thought it more polite to say goodbye and exchange emails and that kind of thing (thanks to all who did!)

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Postby CardZeus » Wed, 05 Apr 2006 1:28 pm

Hopefully its au revoir and not goodbye...


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Postby Strong Eagle » Wed, 05 Apr 2006 4:08 pm

WIMH,

I do hope you will reconsider for a number of reasons. The first and foremost is that you add a great measure to the board and it will be missed by many.

The second: Who stands up if those that are capable walk away.

And finally, I've watched/moderated several boards over the years. They all go through cycles. I've been dismayed at the vitriol and personal attacks made against other posters. It seems to have degenerated from good clean poking fun to simple aggressive attacks.

I also get thoroughly pissed when serious questions and serious threads are hijacked by those who don't have enough respect for the poster to honor the post in the way it was intended.

Yet, consider this: It is a consequence of free speech. To be free means that the clowns, wingnuts, and meanies also have their say.

So, I hope you will continue to post and put points in the 'plus' column. You have much to offer... heart, intelligence, unique perspective... and I hear a great looking face as well. :)

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Postby CardZeus » Wed, 05 Apr 2006 4:10 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:WIMH,

I do hope you will reconsider for a number of reasons. The first and foremost is that you add a great measure to the board and it will be missed by many.

The second: Who stands up if those that are capable walk away.

And finally, I've watched/moderated several boards over the years. They all go through cycles. I've been dismayed at the vitriol and personal attacks made against other posters. It seems to have degenerated from good clean poking fun to simple aggressive attacks.

I also get thoroughly pissed when serious questions and serious threads are hijacked by those who don't have enough respect for the poster to honor the post in the way it was intended.

Yet, consider this: It is a consequence of free speech. To be free means that the clowns, wingnuts, and meanies also have their say.

So, I hope you will continue to post and put points in the 'plus' column. You have much to offer... heart, intelligence, unique perspective... and I hear a great looking face as well. :)




Well said SE - I fully concur, please think again WIMH
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Postby Saint » Wed, 05 Apr 2006 4:26 pm

CardZeus wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:WIMH,

I do hope you will reconsider for a number of reasons. The first and foremost is that you add a great measure to the board and it will be missed by many.

The second: Who stands up if those that are capable walk away.

And finally, I've watched/moderated several boards over the years. They all go through cycles. I've been dismayed at the vitriol and personal attacks made against other posters. It seems to have degenerated from good clean poking fun to simple aggressive attacks.

I also get thoroughly pissed when serious questions and serious threads are hijacked by those who don't have enough respect for the poster to honor the post in the way it was intended.

Yet, consider this: It is a consequence of free speech. To be free means that the clowns, wingnuts, and meanies also have their say.

So, I hope you will continue to post and put points in the 'plus' column. You have much to offer... heart, intelligence, unique perspective... and I hear a great looking face as well. :)




Well said SE - I fully concur, please think again WIMH


Very well said SE sir,

Would like to add to there is a time and a place for SMS language and forums like this is not one of them. Singlish doesn't bother me, probably because I'm immune to eat.

Where I will stick my or in and fervently protest is when people genuinely have a good at Singapore and Singaporeans themself. You might say I'm quite protective of the little Island and I'm very protective of it's people.

I hope you do reconsider and come back WIMH otherwise who's going to do the new Anagram Quiz I'm concocting at the moment :cry:

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Postby Mary Hatch Bailey » Wed, 05 Apr 2006 5:24 pm

Mary Hatch Bailey wrote:All this brings into fine focus why this community will always be frustrating to a soul like WIMH. Smart and epathetic, but forever miscontruing.


Wind In My Hair wrote:misconstruing? others before me had objected to your post in the art market thread,


Why? What exactly was the problem with my post? No one has actually said, either publicly or through a PM: 'Hey Mary, be nice' or 'did you mean to be so hard on them' or anything. SMS voiced his disapointment in general terms, but did not name anyone specifically. How far should I or anyone go to make an inference? An assumption? I asked a perfectly civil question, it wasn't answered, so I said 'Well I'm done'. Where is the personal attack?

Wind In My Hair wrote: also mary, if i may say so, you're easy to misconstrue. i'm not sure if your reply to me was an olive branch or a patronizing self-defence and so will refrain from judgment.


Can't my reply be neither or both? Why does it have to fit into a category? Refrain from judgment? You're going to refrain from judgment??. I think that ship sailed a long time ago. Time to own it. It's OK to disagree, it's even OK to judge. It's OK.

Mary Hatch Bailey wrote:For crying out loud: did anyone get on her case for thinking 'cos' is a word?


Wind In My Hair wrote:cos i didn't realize abbreviations that the dimmest of people would understand would be a cause for small-minded nitpicking on a mature board like this. cos most people here are not like that.


My point exactly -- I brought it up to illustrate that on this 'small-minded, nit-picking board' no one mentioned it before. Not once. I did just to prove a point which was, I feel, tossed aside in favor of a convenient albeit, less than charitable depiction. I think it's obvious that you and I will always be at sixes & sevens -- I don't know why, and I don't even consider it a bad thing. The world still turns. Healthy respect, healthy boundries. You feel I have crossed this line, I know.

As I feel you have. The world still turns.

So go.

Or stay.

But do one or the other.

One foot out the door is no way to be.

If you go, know that you will be missed: the response to your post, the PMs and e-mails certainly is a testament to that. If you stay, perhaps consider that sometimes the results of a person's good works is not obvious in 5 minutes, in 5 hours or in 5 days. That within the measure of a day we are tested on many levels and only you know where your comfort lies.
Last edited by Mary Hatch Bailey on Fri, 07 Apr 2006 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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