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Worst Fate 4 a man:The mind is gone,but the body is here..ag

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mystic law
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Worst Fate 4 a man:The mind is gone,but the body is here..ag

Postby mystic law » Thu, 23 Feb 2006 9:01 pm

Worst Fate to befall a man:The mind is gone,but the body is here..agree???

Such a person is no better than a beast....wasting the years away....akin to Ronald Reagan when Ron got Alzheimer disease at the latter stages of his life????

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Example 2 : (on CNA)

Lee Kuan Yew mentioned dat when he visited Rajaratnam, his former foreign minister in 1998, the latter can't recognise him nor talk to him That means his body was here, but mind was gone.

That means Raja wAS GONE IN (90-8) =82 YRS old. 5 maids were hired to look after him.




What do u guys think?????




:shock:

=========================================

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Postby Global Citizen » Thu, 23 Feb 2006 9:27 pm

One of my greatest fears in life is contracting a disease like Alzheimer's and the emotional and financial burden that it would place on my family's shoulders. Death would be welcome relief as I consider this and other diseases that would incapacitate one to an extreme degree (like being in a coma for one) a fate worse than death.

If one has no quality in life, then one is merely existing not living and I would take a shorter life any day over the other.
One man's meat is another's poison.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 23 Feb 2006 10:41 pm

Global Citizen wrote:One of my greatest fears in life is contracting a disease like Alzheimer's and the emotional and financial burden that it would place on my family's shoulders. Death would be welcome relief as I consider this and other diseases that would incapacitate one to an extreme degree (like being in a coma for one) a fate worse than death.

If one has no quality in life, then one is merely existing not living and I would take a shorter life any day over the other.


GC,

I can relate! My wife and I took care of her father at home until his death 3 years ago. He had had about 7 strokes and was in the 4th stages of Parkinsons disease. He was bedridden for 2 years (we had a hospital bed in our house) and was tube-fed by my wife and I 6 times a day. His memory was gone as well and eventually his voice too. I bathed and dressed him everyday for the last 18 months. It took it's toll on both of us I can tell you. If I thought for a moment that I would end up like that I'd finish the job myself. I've had a DNR and no mechanical intervention directive for almost 20 years now. It's too hard on a family. Both the mental anquish and financial burden.

Looking at one of the photos of Rajaratnam yesterday I noticed that he was also hooked up to a feeding tube inserted through his nose. It had to be rough on those who took care of him.

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Postby sapphire » Thu, 23 Feb 2006 10:53 pm

I hope I'll be dead before that happens to me. Or have the sense to end it myself.
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Postby Global Citizen » Fri, 24 Feb 2006 9:09 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
GC,

I can relate! My wife and I took care of her father at home until his death 3 years ago. He had had about 7 strokes and was in the 4th stages of Parkinsons disease. He was bedridden for 2 years (we had a hospital bed in our house) and was tube-fed by my wife and I 6 times a day. His memory was gone as well and eventually his voice too. I bathed and dressed him everyday for the last 18 months. It took it's toll on both of us I can tell you. If I thought for a moment that I would end up like that I'd finish the job myself. I've had a DNR and no mechanical intervention directive for almost 20 years now. It's too hard on a family. Both the mental anquish and financial burden.

Looking at one of the photos of Rajaratnam yesterday I noticed that he was also hooked up to a feeding tube inserted through his nose. It had to be rough on those who took care of him.


SMS, I'm all for euthanasia in cases of terminal illness or prolonged suffering with no reprieve or cure in sight. We do it for our beloved pets and for animals as an act of mercy, yet apart from a few countries that have decriminalised it, much debate still surrounds the issue and I'm not sure I understand this.

As for the DNR, I totally understand why and see it as an act of selflessness.
One man's meat is another's poison.

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Postby bushbride » Fri, 24 Feb 2006 10:35 am

Global Citizen wrote:One of my greatest fears in life is contracting a disease like Alzheimer's and the emotional and financial burden that it would place on my family's shoulders.


GC, you don't 'contract' Alzheimer’s. It hereditary. My Grandmother had it and eventually died of cancer - a much more painful death than Alzheimer’s.

Maria Shriver, wrote a children’s book on coping with the Alzheimer’s disease and made a great statement on the Oprah show, that Arni said to her....in a nut shell.....

its hard to accept, because you are so use to the person 'being' a particular person before, and you think they are lesser than ones self. However, if you can accept that this who they are 'now' and enjoy that for what it is worth, then things can be good...

http://www.oprah.com/tows/booksseen/200 ... iver.jhtml

Yes. It does takes a lot of time and energy to care for someone with Alzheimer’s. Because they forget the basic things, like where they live, how to turn an oven off etc. It can be very hard too, emotionally and financially.

But personally, I would rather cherish every minute with a loved one that is half there than one who is not there at all. Our parents raised us, carried us, clothed us, paid medical bills, educated us etc when we began our lives. What’s wrong about us returning the same effort when they are getting towards the end of their lives?

BTW - New research says that they way to avoid Alzheimer’s is by keeping the mind active - good brain work outs! Suduko and crossword puzzles, have proven to maintain brain activity to ward off Alzheimer’s.

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Postby Global Citizen » Fri, 24 Feb 2006 11:01 am

bushbride wrote: ]

GC, you don't 'contract' Alzheimer’s. It hereditary. My Grandmother had it and eventually died of cancer - a much more painful death than Alzheimer’s.


Our parents raised us, carried us, clothed us, paid medical bills, educated us etc when we began our lives. What’s wrong about us returning the same effort when they are getting towards the end of their lives?


BB, thanks for the clarification.

As for the other other part, you've misunderstood me. No where have I said or indicated that I'm against caring for my loved ones but rather that I would hope not to be the one to place such a heavy burden on my family's shoulders.
One man's meat is another's poison.

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Postby bushbride » Fri, 24 Feb 2006 11:16 am

GC - not a stab at you at all. It's just my personal view, what I would perfer to do as I mention.

I would give all the financial burden and emotional burden in the world just to have have spent more time with my grandmother. Maybe, I am selfish in that way.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 24 Feb 2006 2:06 pm

bushbride wrote:GC - not a stab at you at all. It's just my personal view, what I would perfer to do as I mention.

I would give all the financial burden and emotional burden in the world just to have have spent more time with my grandmother. Maybe, I am selfish in that way.


bushbride, I think you are still missing the point of GC's post.

She didn't say that she would not give her all to take care of her parents/children/spouse.

She is saying the same thing that I am saying. If "I" were the victim of a crippling disease like Parkinsons or Alzheimer’s I would not want to put my family through the emotional and financial rollercoaster that would happen. The fact that they may be willing to do so is another kettle of fish. I have taken that option away from them. This way the grieving period is much shorter and they can get on with their lives. As a parent even at the end I would still be trying to look out for my spouse and children as it were.

sms

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Postby Wham » Fri, 24 Feb 2006 2:21 pm

sms - what form or format do you use for the DNR and how does one go about formalizing such a thing?
"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man." Samuel Johnson

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Postby cheatercock » Fri, 24 Feb 2006 2:46 pm

Worst Fate to befall a man:The mind is gone,but the body is here..agree???

Such a person is no better than a beast....wasting the years away....akin to Ronald Reagan when Ron got Alzheimer disease at the latter stages of his life????

Image
Is it mind or body ?
  1. Stephen Hawking on wikipedia
  2. Stephen Hawking's Website


I think it is a narrow concept to term them useless and throw them away out of life. Today there is no solution but there is a hope of tomorrow. They might become a challenge for the doctors and scientists of today which might not only eradicate the disease but on its way direct toward many invention which would be useful to us.

Why would they be termed "beast" or spending "useless" years. From their point of view they might be leading a life within a restricted view.
A new born child doesn't have all the senses of whole world but he still enjoys/leads his life.

Dependancy on others is a thing which no wants specially after being on his own foot for a number of years. But that is a part and parcel of this living world.But MAN cannot call it as an object of despair as he has only coined EVERY CLOUD HAS A SILVER LINING. Today man made possible to enable Hawking use his brain tomorrow Hawkings may use body too.
Last edited by cheatercock on Fri, 24 Feb 2006 6:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
ImageThere is an art of which every man should be a master - "the art of reflection". If you are not a thinking man, to what purpose are you a man at all? ~ William Hart Coleridge

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Postby bushbride » Fri, 24 Feb 2006 3:04 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:bushbride, I think you are still missing the point of GC's post.

She didn't say that she would not give her all to take care of her parents/children/spouse.



Keep your shirt in sms. I do not miss understand - neither of you want to be a burden. that is your opinion and that is fine.

I don’t believe in euthanasia, and I wouldn’t want my children to have the burden of following through with such a request. That would haunt them for they rest of their lives and be a far greater burden. DNR – have not thought about that much, but the ‘what if?’ factor springs to mind.

And, I am not saying that GC or you wouldn't give your all to take care of a sick relative. And, I am sorry if you read it this way. I was giving a different perspective on the topic, not insult.

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Postby bushbride » Fri, 24 Feb 2006 3:21 pm

cheatercock wrote:I think it is a narrow concept to term them useless and throw them away out of life. Today there is no solution but there is a hope of tomorrow. They might become a challenge for the doctors and scientists of today which might not only eradicate the disease but on its way direct toward many invention which would be useful to us.

Why would they be termed "beast" or spending "useless" years. From their point of view they might be leading a life within a restricted view.
A new born child doesn't have all the senses of whole world but he still enjoys/leads his life.

Dependancy on others is a thing which no wants specially after being on his own foot for a number of years. But that is a part and parcel of this living world.But MAN cannot call it as an obect of despair as he has only coinned EVERY CLOUD HAS A SILVER LINING. Today man made possible to enable Hawking use his brain tomorrow Hawkings may use body too.


Well put cheatercock.

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Postby Plavt » Fri, 24 Feb 2006 6:19 pm

cheatercock wrote: Today there is no solution but there is a hope of tomorrow. They might become a challenge for the doctors and scientists of today which might not only eradicate the disease but on its way direct toward many invention which would be useful to us.





What we have here is without doubt a very emotional issue and one I would not like to get embroiled in.

However, a very valid point is made by cheatercock in what he says above. Many diseases have been eradicated, just a brief look through history will show you that a good deal of what at one would have killed or maimed you no longer does. I would imagine SMS and GC are old (don't know about you BB) enough to remember when much of today's world was mere fantasy.

This of course does not help the emotional and financial turmoil a family may suffer of course and perhaps either society or government should spend more time and money looking at such issues.

Not much I can contribute just my two pence worth while hoping research and technology succeeds.

Plavt.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 24 Feb 2006 6:23 pm

Wham wrote:sms - what form or format do you use for the DNR and how does one go about formalizing such a thing?


I actually had a family lawyer draw one up and it is on file with the local hospital where I am from as well as several neighboring hospital and Johns Hopkins in Baltimore (where I was born). My wife has a copy of it but whether or not it would be honored/adhered to here in Singapore is anybodies guess. One can only hope that they would honor it.

I won't go into the details of it but you can get a doctor or lawyer to help you fill one out. I believe, like wills, you can do a search on google and find a template to use. Again, I am not sure if a local doctor here in Singapore will do so or not. Most US states recognize DNR's and Advanced Medical Directives. You can change them anytime you have a change of heart (no pun intended). Before you do something like that be sure to discuss it thoroughly with your wife/children and parents as it's likely to be a point of contention - it was with mine initially but now they understand the thought processes behind my wishes.

sms


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