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Tolerance what next?

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Plavt
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Tolerance what next?

Postby Plavt » Wed, 08 Feb 2006 6:08 am

Readers please see the following link
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4690224.stm

in particular the following (sub-section of above)



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4689816.stm


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Global Citizen
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Postby Global Citizen » Wed, 08 Feb 2006 8:41 am

It is precisely because of this sort of thing going unchecked due to irresponsible citizens who take advantage of a system's loopholes and violate the freedom(s) accorded to them, that I'm grateful for Singapore's tough stance on what constitutes 'free speech' and the parameters imposed. Abu Hamza is 1 case in point; there were others before him and there'll be others after him.

If curtailing certain freedoms is what it takes to live in a multi-racial, harmonious society, it only stands to reason that one should be prepared to lose a little for the bigger picture that'll ultimately benefit all.

Agree or disagree?
Last edited by Global Citizen on Wed, 08 Feb 2006 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Wham » Wed, 08 Feb 2006 10:01 am

GC, i agree with you. I am perfectly willing to give up a little free speech in order to live in a safer world.

Plavt, as an american, i hae always found the slightly deminished freedom of speech in the UK a bit at odds with their being a leading global democracy, but after living there for some time, i have to say that i think they have managed to find a good compromise between freedom of the press and appropriate restraint. Note that while lambasting the moslems, none of the british tabloids have published the offending Mohammed cartoons.
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Postby Vaucluse » Wed, 08 Feb 2006 10:40 am

Not sure about where I stand on the 'give up freedom for security' issue - how easily can this be abused and misused by those in power . . . Scary stuff.
Bizarre, though, that one of the things I find so wonderful about Singapore is the security, the fact that big bro' is everywhere doesn't bother me at all.


Love the story of the dimwit anti-cartoon protestor in London who is a convicted crack dealer . . . dressed up as a suicide bomber . . .

Standards and hypocrisy?
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Plavt
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Postby Plavt » Wed, 08 Feb 2006 4:58 pm

Thank you Wham and Vaucluse. Wham, I think one of the reasons newspapers here chose not to publish the cartoons is they realize the likely consequences. I wonder if this may, in part, be due to the furore that erupted after the publication of Salman Rushdie's 'Satanic Versus' along with considerations after the 7, July attacks.

Vaucluse, I have much the same feelings about Singapore despite my short visits to the country. In many ways I feel very indifferent about the regime that some are so critical of. I do enjoy walking along a street in safety and finding public conveniences are clean and easily accessible together with a generally well mannered populace. As you imply there is little to be concerned about unless you happen to be one of those whose purpose there is for criminal activities.

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Postby Saint » Wed, 08 Feb 2006 5:09 pm

Vaucluse wrote:
Love the story of the dimwit anti-cartoon protestor in London who is a convicted crack dealer . . . dressed up as a suicide bomber . . .

Standards and hypocrisy?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4687996.stm

What a complete idiot and especially when 7/7 is fresh in alot of people's mind, including me

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Postby vaishali » Thu, 09 Feb 2006 3:14 pm

The problem is, that terror attacks are still so fresh in people's minds, that some of them (I'm not saying all of them) have trouble with trusting anyone who looks different.

For example, a friend of mine married a malay guy from Singapore. They moved to England. He got a job. All fine and dandy, the job was going great. After the bombings in London, colleagues started calling him "Osama", which is most certainly not his name. After a month of them doing so, the guy asks the colleagues to stop, and does so in a nice fashion (no shouting). The colleagues laugh in his face and continue to call him that. Then, he is fired from that job, because one day he had a nose bleed and couldn't work and had to go home. He'd never done it before! He felt they were looking for an excuse to get rid of him, because he is muslim. That to me, is sad.

Now, they have to move back to Singapore, because England is so expensive and the guy doesn't want to live there now because he is feeling very uncomfortable.

I hope good people are not getting the short end of the lollipop, it's not fair to judge just because of their religion, or the way they look.
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Plavt
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Postby Plavt » Thu, 09 Feb 2006 5:27 pm

Vaishali,


Abu Hamza has exploited the fact that this country is tolerant of different faiths and seems to me the authorities in some ways might possibly have been afraid of dealing with him in case of inflaming racial tensions a situation we have had before. You may not have thought of the riots that started in the St Paul's district of Bristol and then Brixton and other cities.

You may recall from news items that police raided the Finsbury Park mosque and subsequently required items implicating Abu Hamza yet if many Muslims had their way they would not have been able to and Hamza would have continued supporting terrorism.

This is an abuse of a freedom that this country has granted its residents and I would hope that a Muslims amongst others would respect that. Would you not agree it is rather rich for some to expect respect for their beliefs and disregard those who granted them the right to practice in the first place?

However, Abu Hamza is not representative of Islam a fact so often overlooked but we should not be stopped from enforcing the safety of our citizens and those of other nations simply because somebody considers their place of worship sacred


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