Anyone know Vietnam?

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Post by dot dot dot » Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:16 pm

Yeah, I am the one to blame that I state simple facts, shoot me for that.... :?

The point is, I am not attracted to an ambience like that, period. If you are, do go, you'll be at the right spot to enjoy it.

It's a free world people, like it or not, but let all have an opinion, ok?

Btw 'big guns', smelly is a compliment for a place like Hanoi....

Eric

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Post by dot dot dot » Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:21 pm

brifusg wrote:I have no comments on your wordings except "VN has NO foodculture". Who are you to say so??
Just my humble opinion brifusg.

So enlighten me, what is the foodculture in VN all about? I didnot get any further then Pho Bo or Pho Ga, but I am anxious to hear more Po's or other specialties from you?

Eric

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Post by brifusg » Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:34 pm

Eric from the Netherlands wrote:
brifusg wrote:I have no comments on your wordings except "VN has NO foodculture". Who are you to say so??
Just my humble opinion brifusg.

So enlighten me, what is the foodculture in VN all about? I didnot get any further then Pho Bo or Pho Ga, but I am anxious to hear more Po's or other specialties from you?

Eric
come on, man. I can name a lot of dishes which i believe you never tried before. some are in english, most are in Vietnamese

spring roll, banh cuon (made of rice), canh chua ca, shellfish soup and vermicelli, and I can say A LOT A LOT more!

I suppose you're from the West so definitely you may not like all of these dishes, but pls never ever say that a country other than your own country has NO foodculture. That definitely offend a lot people.

I know this is freeworld, you can say whatever you want --- but it doesn't mean you can say anything you like. DO appreciate other people's culture. Just want to remind of Danmark's cartoon affair although it's not very relevant here.

I just want to emphasize that whatever you say VN has become one of the most attractive visit points in Asia. It might not hold for you -- never mind, but it holds for mil of other tourists.

just my 2cents

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Post by dot dot dot » Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:55 pm

If you'd read my postings (not just the one on the Denmark cartoon), you'd know I love Asia and all its culinary, not just Dutch food (as if Dutch food is a culinary experience.... :o ).

I love the variety of the Thai kitchen, the Malay kitchen and for a part the incredible variety of Chinese food, just to name a few in Asia. I am not into Korean or Japanese food, but do see they have a great variety and a richness in it.

When comparing those to the Vietnamese kitchen, I find it very underdeveloped. It is just the streetfood, springrolls and the noodle soups, that's all. It's simple, it's for the people who cannot afford much more as they are damn poor.

Why you guess the high end restaurants there all serve either French or fusion food?

We went to Bobby Chin and Tangerine, restaurants that serve the more distinctive taste. They confirmed there is not really such as Vietnamese culinary, it's basic food for an empty stomach.

No offense meant though, a nice Pho Bo is ok, but not exactly a culinary experience.

How interesting Vietnam may be for the tourist, is all a matter of taste I'd say. As mentioned, the backpacker who visits Asia for the first time may think it's spectacular, but when having travelled throughout Asia more extensively and being able to compare it, you come to the conslusion it doesnot have the level of service and infrastructure to serve mid- to high end tourism.

The tours offered at the main destinations like the Perfume Pagoda, Ha Long and alike are far from being professional, the command of the English language is very poor, cheating is all around, hygiene standards are a nightmare, facilities are poor, pollution is extremely high and when competing with for example destinations like Cambodia, Thailand, Bali or Malaysia it is at the same price level, but offering far less value for that money.

And it is not unique, so it will have to compete with countries mentioned. If I do a 2 day, 1 night tour in Ko Pha Nga compare to a 2 day, 1 night in Ha Long bay, I get a far more spectacular, more professional and more breathtaking experience for half the money in Thailand.

You post your 2 cents, I post my opinion, that's my idea of the free world.

Eric

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Post by brifusg » Tue, 28 Mar 2006 1:51 pm

Eric from the Netherlands wrote:If you'd read my postings (not just the one on the Denmark cartoon), you'd know I love Asia and all its culinary, not just Dutch food (as if Dutch food is a culinary experience.... :o ).

I love the variety of the Thai kitchen, the Malay kitchen and for a part the incredible variety of Chinese food, just to name a few in Asia. I am not into Korean or Japanese food, but do see they have a great variety and a richness in it.

When comparing those to the Vietnamese kitchen, I find it very underdeveloped. It is just the streetfood, springrolls and the noodle soups, that's all. It's simple, it's for the people who cannot afford much more as they are damn poor.

Why you guess the high end restaurants there all serve either French or fusion food?

We went to Bobby Chin and Tangerine, restaurants that serve the more distinctive taste. They confirmed there is not really such as Vietnamese culinary, it's basic food for an empty stomach.

No offense meant though, a nice Pho Bo is ok, but not exactly a culinary experience.

How interesting Vietnam may be for the tourist, is all a matter of taste I'd say. As mentioned, the backpacker who visits Asia for the first time may think it's spectacular, but when having travelled throughout Asia more extensively and being able to compare it, you come to the conslusion it doesnot have the level of service and infrastructure to serve mid- to high end tourism.

The tours offered at the main destinations like the Perfume Pagoda, Ha Long and alike are far from being professional, the command of the English language is very poor, cheating is all around, hygiene standards are a nightmare, facilities are poor, pollution is extremely high and when competing with for example destinations like Cambodia, Thailand, Bali or Malaysia it is at the same price level, but offering far less value for that money.

And it is not unique, so it will have to compete with countries mentioned. If I do a 2 day, 1 night tour in Ko Pha Nga compare to a 2 day, 1 night in Ha Long bay, I get a far more spectacular, more professional and more breathtaking experience for half the money in Thailand.

You post your 2 cents, I post my opinion, that's my idea of the free world.

Eric
Who asked you mustn't have any other food other than streetfood? How many dishes have you tried? Do you know the coverage of the word "foodculture"? How many days have you spent in VN? How many articles/books have read about VN? Can you simply say VN has NO foodculture? You prefer Malay/Thai... food - I don't care, however, having said that you cannot simply conclude that VN has NO foodculture.

I'd stop discussing with you since I don't think you have an objective view and willing to understand my points.

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Post by dot dot dot » Tue, 28 Mar 2006 2:01 pm

It's all opinions Brifusg, not who is wrong or right, no worries....

You are right in what you just said, I didnot have such an extensive research and experience in Vietnam. But in what I have seen and read and heard from locals there, what you see is what you get.

Streetfood and culinary are two different things and I was referring to culinary, which is easier to be found in a good restaurant.

You make a statement that VN is one of the most interesting destinations in Asia, without any furhter indepth argumentation. I at least tried to explain in detail how I came to my opinions.

Eric

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Post by brifusg » Tue, 28 Mar 2006 3:06 pm

Eric from the Netherlands wrote:It's all opinions Brifusg, not who is wrong or right, no worries....
You can say whatever you want to say like VNese foods not nice blah blah, but you're wrong when you say VN has No Food culture.
Eric from the Netherlands wrote: You make a statement that VN is one of the most interesting destinations in Asia, without any furhter indepth argumentation. I at least tried to explain in detail how I came to my opinions.

Eric
Sorry, it's because I read some reports (hardcopies) long time ago so no references. However, few links for your reference:

http://asia.news.yahoo.com/060222/4/2g8cu.html
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_ ... 1Ae02.html
http://www.businessmonitor.com/images/p ... sample.pdf

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Post by green_field » Wed, 29 Mar 2006 4:20 pm

@Eric: Yeah, i've got your point, man.


Poor Eric, he only can afford street food. Everywhere else in this world should be the same for him, Brifu :lol: :lol:

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Post by dot dot dot » Wed, 29 Mar 2006 4:44 pm

green_field wrote:@Eric: Yeah, i've got your point, man.


Poor Eric, he only can afford street food. Everywhere else in this world should be the same for him, Brifu :lol: :lol:
Clearly you haven't got the point dude, learn to read first before making wrong statements?

We didnot have streetfood
Eric from the Netherlands wrote:Food culture? Where? You mean the street stalls drenched in bacteria? "fresh" vegetables hanging in the open drains on the streets?
Eric from the Netherlands wrote:If you'd read my postings (not just the one on the Denmark cartoon), you'd know I love Asia and all its culinary, not just Dutch food (as if Dutch food is a culinary experience.... :o ).

I love the variety of the Thai kitchen, the Malay kitchen and for a part the incredible variety of Chinese food, just to name a few in Asia. I am not into Korean or Japanese food, but do see they have a great variety and a richness in it.

When comparing those to the Vietnamese kitchen, I find it very underdeveloped. It is just the streetfood, springrolls and the noodle soups, that's all. It's simple, it's for the people who cannot afford much more as they are damn poor.

Why you guess the high end restaurants there all serve either French or fusion food?

We went to Bobby Chin and Tangerine, restaurants that serve the more distinctive taste. They confirmed there is not really such as Vietnamese culinary, it's basic food for an empty stomach.

No offense meant though, a nice Pho Bo is ok, but not exactly a culinary experience.
Got it now smartie? :?

Eric
Last edited by dot dot dot on Wed, 29 Mar 2006 9:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by sapphire » Wed, 29 Mar 2006 7:50 pm

A country like Vietnam with it's rich history would lack a rich food culture? Think about it Eric. As I mentioned before, you did not read up before travelling. You broadbrush an entire country's foodculture based on a trip to Hanoi? Not very smart.

I had some awesome Vietnamese food in Ho Chi Minh City. And it wasn't just Pho Bo.

Hanoi, I had the best South Indian food since I left India.

A few pics of food I had in HCMC. Was out of this world. Cooked Vietnamese style.

Image


Image

Image
It's not getting any smarter out there. You have to come to terms with stupidity, and make it work for you.

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Post by dot dot dot » Wed, 29 Mar 2006 9:01 pm

south indian food? Is that part of the Vietnamese culinary history then?

As said, you can get good food in Vietnam, but is either fusion or French, not authentic Vietnamese food.

I not only went to Hanoi btw.....

Please people, don't react so emotionally, read first: I said there is no foodculture in Vietnam, which doesnot mean there is no delicious food available in VN.

It just has not an authentic rich Vietnamese culinary history and all good food is non-vietnamese....

Eric

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Post by brifusg » Thu, 30 Mar 2006 1:35 am

green_field wrote: Poor Eric, he only can afford street food. Everywhere else in this world should be the same for him, Brifu :lol: :lol:
No, you're "wrong"! You can never get his point! Neither do I. No matter how I explain to him, he still insists his point.
Just couple of days spent in Hanoi, tried few dishes, he can already conclude Vietnam has no foodculture. He can say there is no delicious dishes (to him). I'm fine with it. Howver, it doesn't mean Vietnam has no foodculture. I'm not willing to argue with him anymore.

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Post by sapphire » Thu, 30 Mar 2006 2:56 am

Umm..no South Indian food can't be Vietnamese, I forgot to add a smiley there. But it was awesome nevertheless. :P

According to you, what's authentic Vietnamese food , Eric? Oh sorry, you can't answer that, because you didn't get to try any.

What can I say, except that you should have done your research and known where to go and what to try. I am really disappointed with your myopic viewpoint. Didn't expect this from you. Yes, noodles is their staple diet, but do you know why? Answer without googling if you can.

All I can say is that I had fantastic food on the junkboat, the spread was simply out of this world. And, some more awesome food in HCMC, yes all Vietnamese.
It's not getting any smarter out there. You have to come to terms with stupidity, and make it work for you.

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Post by dot dot dot » Thu, 30 Mar 2006 1:18 pm

brifusg wrote:He can say there is no delicious dishes (to him). I'm fine with it. Howver, it doesn't mean Vietnam has no foodculture. I'm not willing to argue with him anymore.
Exactly brifusg: You seem to argue rather then discuss. I respect your opinion, but you seem not to respect mine and rather try and ridiculize. Also, you put words in my mouth I haven't said.

As I said before, read carefully: I did have good food in Vietnam, but it was not authentic Vietnamese food. There is good food available (mostly in the more upscale restaurants), but there is no such as a rich foodculture in Vietnam.

You just refuse to read carefully and you are therefore the one insisting.

I travelled around and didnot just stay a few days in Hanoi.

Discussion is an exchange of argumentation, facts and opinions. One doesnot need to fight over it, one can just have a different opinion. No need to say others are wrong or alike. Get mature in your discussion.

Regarding your links to confirm your point of view that Vietnam is one of the most interesting destinations in Asia:

Vietnam expects its tourism sector to grow significantly. Well, that doesnot mean a thing, does it? If you are small, you relatively grow more easy or even double easily.

Tourism as such is still very much underdeveloped in Vietnam, whether you like it or not. Yes, it may grow (btw, your links are dated in 2004), but I would be interested to see how many first timers going there, will go back after they experienced it for real.

I would go back to Bali, to Cambodia, to Thailand just to name a few, but I would not consider going back again to Vietnam.

Did you ever go yourself to Vietnam by the way? I wonder.

Eric

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Post by dot dot dot » Thu, 30 Mar 2006 1:22 pm

sapphire wrote:According to you, what's authentic Vietnamese food , Eric? Oh sorry, you can't answer that, because you didn't get to try any.
Wrong assumption there.

I only said there is no rich foodculture in authentic Vietnamese cuisine. Pho's and springrolls and noodles do not make it a cuisine to be compared with Italian or Mexican or Indian or Malay cuisine just to name a few.

Is it so hard to read more carefully?

Eric

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