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Shit, it is art....

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Shit, it is art....

Postby dot dot dot » Sat, 17 Dec 2005 2:04 am

Even worse than racism I find the total destruction of art.

May 10 1933 in nazi Germany.

Image

Books being burnt, art being destructed. The holocaust, one of history's black pages.

On this forum today a piece of art of a young long ago artist was being branded as a piece of shit. May not look that serious one would think. But in fact it is the total denial of the most personal expression of a person, a denial of the essence of life, which is creation, the most individual expression of one's soul.

You may not be attracted to it, so be it. But branding art as shit is probably the most destructive act one could imagine.

Freedom of expression, sure. You can and should say what you like or not like. But never ever deny the artist's unique emotion and expression.

Respect it. Enjoy it.

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

Judging other's expression is a crime.

Calling it shit is just inhumane.

It was about the painting "die Umarmung" of Egon Schiele. Expression of the deepest emotions of humans, the embrace, vulnerable and insecure, but passionate, wanting and longing.

Seen as a piece of shit....

Egon Schiele, an artist at the turn of the 19th to the 20th century (1890 - 1918), his life full of despair because of death around him. His beloved father, who died at the age of 54, after the whole family saw him deterioting and dying in a state of madness.

Egon' comments: "I don't know whether there is anyone else at all who remembers my noble father with such sadness. I don't know who is able to understand why I visit those places where my father used to be and where I can feel the pain... . I believe in the immortality of all creatures ... why do I paint graves and many similar things? because this continues to live in me."

The young Schiele moved to Vienna, painted and was arrested, being charged with displaying "pornographic materials", his paintings.

Probably even worse, the story of him and his wife Edith:

In 1915 he had met two middleclass girls who lived opposite his studio. Edith and Adéle harms were the daughters of a master locksmith. Schiele was attracted to both of them, but eventually fixed his sights on Edith.

He and Edith moved to a new and grander house and studio. Their pleasure in it was brief. On 19 October 1918 Edith, who was pregnant, fell ill with Spanish influenza, then sweeping Europe. On 28 October she died. Schiele, who seems never to have written her a real love-letter, and who in the midst of her illness wrote his mother a very cool letter to say that she would probably not survive, was devastated by the loss. Almost immediately he came down with the same sickness, and died on 31 October, three days after his wife." It is said because of grief for the loss of his beloved wife.

Now that is shit, isn't it?

Here's to Aegon Schiele:

Image

Image

Image

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Now if you call that shit, there must be a lot of shit in your own head, don't you think?

Better get it away and take a better look, it might enrich your life? :-|

Eric

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Postby Vaucluse » Sat, 17 Dec 2005 8:43 am

Time to chill, Eric.
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 17 Dec 2005 10:26 am

The young Schiele moved to Vienna, painted and was arrested, being charged with displaying "pornographic materials", his paintings.

Kinda says it all don't it.

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Postby Vaucluse » Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:43 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:The young Schiele moved to Vienna, painted and was arrested, being charged with displaying "pornographic materials", his paintings.

Kinda says it all don't it.



So was Wham, wasn't he?
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Postby dot dot dot » Sat, 17 Dec 2005 1:21 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:The young Schiele moved to Vienna, painted and was arrested, being charged with displaying "pornographic materials", his paintings.

Kinda says it all don't it.


Indeed from the dark ages, vaucluse you put it right... :?

Eric

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Re: Shit, it is art....

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 17 Dec 2005 2:41 pm

I sorry Eric, next time I'll be sure to put the "quotes" where they belong. That way you won't forgot who wrote what.

Eric from the Netherlands wrote:Even worse than racism I find the total destruction of art.

May 10 1933 in nazi Germany.

Books being burnt, art being destructed. The holocaust, one of history's black pages.

On this forum today a piece of art of a young long ago artist was being branded as a piece of shit. May not look that serious one would think. But in fact it is the total denial of the most personal expression of a person, a denial of the essence of life, which is creation, the most individual expression of one's soul.

You may not be attracted to it, so be it. But branding art as shit is probably the most destructive act one could imagine.

Freedom of expression, sure. You can and should say what you like or not like. But never ever deny the artist's unique emotion and expression.

Respect it. Enjoy it.

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

Judging other's expression is a crime.

Calling it shit is just inhumane.

It was about the painting "die Umarmung" of Egon Schiele. Expression of the deepest emotions of humans, the embrace, vulnerable and insecure, but passionate, wanting and longing.

Seen as a piece of shit....

Egon Schiele, an artist at the turn of the 19th to the 20th century (1890 - 1918), his life full of despair because of death around him. His beloved father, who died at the age of 54, after the whole family saw him deterioting and dying in a state of madness.

Egon' comments: "I don't know whether there is anyone else at all who remembers my noble father with such sadness. I don't know who is able to understand why I visit those places where my father used to be and where I can feel the pain... . I believe in the immortality of all creatures ... why do I paint graves and many similar things? because this continues to live in me."

The young Schiele moved to Vienna, painted and was arrested, being charged with displaying "pornographic materials", his paintings.

Probably even worse, the story of him and his wife Edith:

In 1915 he had met two middleclass girls who lived opposite his studio. Edith and Adéle harms were the daughters of a master locksmith. Schiele was attracted to both of them, but eventually fixed his sights on Edith.

He and Edith moved to a new and grander house and studio. Their pleasure in it was brief. On 19 October 1918 Edith, who was pregnant, fell ill with Spanish influenza, then sweeping Europe. On 28 October she died. Schiele, who seems never to have written her a real love-letter, and who in the midst of her illness wrote his mother a very cool letter to say that she would probably not survive, was devastated by the loss. Almost immediately he came down with the same sickness, and died on 31 October, three days after his wife." It is said because of grief for the loss of his beloved wife.

Now that is shit, isn't it?

Now if you call that shit, there must be a lot of shit in your own head, don't you think?

Better get it away and take a better look, it might enrich your life? :-|

Eric


And anyway, it wasn't me who called your art appreciation sh1t.

I agree with you, although in your haste to flame anything I say, you tend to confuse who said what. I agree that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and not everybody has the same 'taste' in art nor in poetry for that matter. Those whose tastes are different have just as much right to express their thoughts, as Wham did. I like art as well, but there are styles that I don't like and feel are nothing more than child scrawls, but that's my opinion and as we all know, opinions are like @$$holes everybody has one and they all stink! That fact seems to be lost on you.

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Postby sapphire » Sat, 17 Dec 2005 2:45 pm

Uh oh, here we go again...

I think I'll take a long break from this forum. :-|
It's not getting any smarter out there. You have to come to terms with stupidity, and make it work for you.

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Postby Vaucluse » Sat, 17 Dec 2005 2:58 pm

Right . . .



So, Sapphire . . . aside from your well-publicised jaunts to Vietnam, anything else on the calendar with hubby for the remainder of this year?
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Re: Shit, it is art....

Postby dot dot dot » Sat, 17 Dec 2005 3:42 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:I sorry Eric, next time I'll be sure to put the "quotes" where they belong. That way you won't forgot who wrote what.


Read again:

sundaymorningstaple wrote:The young Schiele moved to Vienna, painted and was arrested, being charged with displaying "pornographic materials", his paintings.

Kinda says it all don't it.


Don't pity yourself for being blamed all the time, k?

Eric

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Postby dot dot dot » Sat, 17 Dec 2005 3:44 pm

sapphire wrote:Uh oh, here we go again...

I think I'll take a long break from this forum. :-|


Can you just stop being so sensitive when others don't agree or react on eachother?

Chill out, nothing going on dear... :)

Eric

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Postby Bubbles » Sat, 17 Dec 2005 7:18 pm

Absolutely agree with every word of Eric's and no, not sucking up to him, just agree, that's all.

In life, everyone has a different appreciation of what they consider to be 'art.' And that is how it should be, otherwise how would art evolve? The problem is that to slate a piece of art as 'shit' is one of the worse things you could do. The artist created it and put his soul into it. The amount of effort and love it takes to bring any art to fruition takes courage and trust. When you paint, you paint part of yourself, when you write, there you are, on the page for all to see. To say a creation is 'shit' is killing the love and gift a human being has.

OK, you may not admire it, but it cannot be 'shit' because a wonderful creation (Man) has made it.

Why not agree to disagree and say, 'That's not my style, says nothing to me, but it is art and as such deserves at least a look'

What I'm trying to say is that everything has beauty or worth, even the ugliest of art or literature. If you look for it. For myself, I do not go much on the very ancient two dimensional religious painting of pre 15th century, but they have their beauty, and what's exciting is to know that someone put their hand to a brush and was moved enough to produce what I now see, all these centuries later.

I also see the point in Tracy Emin's work, her 'sculptures' etc. To many they are mounds of rubbish, but SHE IS SAYING something to us, and if we only stop to think for two seconds about what it is, at least it's two seconds out of our normal boring lives....

Just try to see that all forms of art add something to life, perhaps not yours, you think, but it does because it exists when you exist, and that must add to life, as a life without art, (modern graphic art too) literature or performance would be dreadful.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Dylan Thomas.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 17 Dec 2005 8:13 pm

Bubbles wrote:Absolutely agree with every word of Eric's and no, not sucking up to him, just agree, that's all.



Bubbs, I agreed with him as well, and at no time did I refer to his taste in art as 'shit' or the art piece itself. Yes, I did refer to it as 'pornographic' as was also done by people before me which he referred to himself. If you look at early texts of The Story of "O" the artwork is not dissimiler. Is the work pornographic even by todays standards? Yes, Is it still considered readable? Yes. I find it that way as well, it's just my taste doesn't run in that direction. He has every right to his taste as do I. I did not nor do not disparage him or his tastes, I only agreed with somebody else in as much as I find it more pornographic in style. Oh, by the way, I believe that is a style just like impressionist, modernist, cubist, advant guarde, bohemian, or rubenesque or hyrogliphic (sp!) or even manga, or anime. Each to their own I say.

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not sure

Postby ringo100 » Sat, 17 Dec 2005 10:07 pm

I totally disagree. Some art is; just shit. I remember watching a program where they gave an elephant a paintbrush, then got it to paint and asked some "art critics" to evaluate the painting; they loved it!

I have seen some stuff by Tracey Emin and her kin and it is shit, in some cases it literally is shit!

Also, does anyone agree that Jackson Pollack’s stuff reminds them of primary school where after you cover your folder and then blow paint, through a straw, to create an pretty cover.

I know it is about personal taste, but like everything in life, sometimes, there is a shit movie, a shit TV program, a shit song, a shit play and sometimes there is shit art.

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Postby Bubbles » Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:45 pm

Totally disagree about Tracey Emin, most of her stuff is great. Yes, even the bed scene with the condoms and tampax. She can also paint like a dream, like Picasso could, and how many people judge him?

Yes, some things are not to your taste, but just say you don't like them.

By the way, if an elephant did a painting, it is STILL art. Just because humans didn't do it, it is still a 'made' thing.

Can art only be art if we do it, and not other species?

If we can admire the natural world and its animals for their beauty, or speed, or ingenuity, why not admire them for their art?
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.



Dylan Thomas.

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...

Postby ringo100 » Sun, 18 Dec 2005 12:22 pm

I know it is still art but it can be bad. Otherwise, we might as well remove the word. If you take your argument to the extreme there would never be a bad anything as it is all about taste. We might as well say nothing is every bad because someone somewhere might like it.

I would agree different styles are to different peoples tastes, but you will always find a bad examples of pictures in every style. Even some of the great artists painted howlers.

I could draw a picture today; call it art but know it is shit. Art is supposed to have meaning and thought behind it, the elephant was more concerned with finding his peanuts.


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