American foreign policy to blame in Iran?

sapphire · Post by **sapphire** » Fri, 16 Dec 2005 2:59 pm

CardZeus wrote:...I'm sure God will tell GWB what to do anyway...

CardZeus · Post by **CardZeus** » Fri, 16 Dec 2005 3:05 pm

In am not an anti-semite - but I do believe that this is all about political posturing and is very much hot air - Iran poses no threat, and even if they were to, that threat would be stamped out pretty damn quick.
Surely it is in ANY country's interests to acquire nuclear capability to gain entrance to the 'nuclear club' and hence increase their bargaining power in the political arena, and they would be failing their electorate were they not to do so...

Wham · Post by **Wham** » Fri, 16 Dec 2005 3:17 pm

Sorry Zeus, but that is faulty logic. Should New Zealand make an effort to acquire nuclear weapons? Of course not. And why not? Because they are a peaceful country with no bad intentions towards anyone... And don't forget, Iran IS sitting on a pile of oil.

If someone called you a complete $UNT, would you also think... "Oh, that's ok, he is just postering."

CardZeus · Post by **CardZeus** » Fri, 16 Dec 2005 4:22 pm

Wham wrote:Sorry Zeus, but that is faulty logic. Should New Zealand make an effort to acquire nuclear weapons? Of course not. And why not? Because they are a peaceful country with no bad intentions towards anyone... And don't forget, Iran IS sitting on a pile of oil.

If someone called you a complete $UNT, would you also think... "Oh, that's ok, he is just postering."

Maybe I should have qualified that with - any country rich in natural resources like oil - New Zealand, LOL, too busy counting sheep

But seriously your last comment sums it up for me ... if someone calls me a c*nt I am not going to make a premeditated attack on them...

Vaucluse · Post by **Vaucluse** » Fri, 16 Dec 2005 4:24 pm

T2K wrote:The "axis of evil" thing was a bit too melodramatic for me.

However, the Iranians elected this guy. He's a nutjob. That some people can blame the US just shows how pervasive the "victim mentality" is around the world. Everything is someone else's fault.

Seeing the Euroids squirm is kind of funny though. They can appease and accomodate on just about any issue, BUT the holocaust (especially to the Germans) is sacrosanct.

Their response: we're going to get together, and issue a JOINT EU STATEMENT and WE'RE NOT GOING TO FORGET THIS FOR AT LEAST A LITTLE WHILE. Really, they need to harden up a bit if they want anyone to take them seriously. Kissing islamic ass doesn't earn you any credit, as Paris showed recently.

And T2K, what response would you advocate - it's fine to constantly criticise Europe for their action, or inaction - but try to offer an alternative that doesn't involve invading someone.

Do you also think Europe is wrong in it's attitude towards Cuba?

At least seeing people squirm is better than seeing pople unleash murder and mayhem with a silly grin on their face and then lie about the reason.

No doubt this freak is a total and complete whacko - even his own government is embarrased and trying to find ways of shutting him up.

Now, back to the original question before Wham (back to his former glory) and T2K vent theirs on the Europeans again . . .

Can one build a case for the marginalisation of Iran by the US? Of course one can if one goes back far enough. Having said that, one can also build a case for the same by Finland, Madagascar, Fiji and Sao Tome and Principe.

Intellectualising something is ever so easy.

Wham · Post by **Wham** » Fri, 16 Dec 2005 5:18 pm

Vaucluse, I think a diplomatic approach to this is the best response - and that starts with making it clear to Iran just how upset the world is with this type of BS. But so far i see a lot of people writing "this guy is just a kook" and not too many people writing "this is completely unacceptable." Personally, i would like to see a MUCH stronger response from Europe - who has up until recently been defeding Iran. But unfortunately, this does not appear to be happening.

Wham · Post by **Wham** » Fri, 16 Dec 2005 5:40 pm

just read on dow jones - iran is working to extend the range of their missles to 3,500 kilometers with the help of North Korean and Russian technology.

Maybe the US really should just let Europe deal with this one...

Vaucluse · Post by **Vaucluse** » Fri, 16 Dec 2005 5:43 pm

Wham, just for you:

this is completely unacceptable

I wish the executive order would be rescinded for certain people

Wham · Post by **Wham** » Fri, 16 Dec 2005 5:49 pm

I LIKE the sound of that!

...next thing we know you will be MARCHING OFF TO TAKE TEHRAN!!!

sapphire · Post by **sapphire** » Fri, 16 Dec 2005 6:13 pm

Vaucluse wrote:Wham, just for you:

this is completely unacceptable

I swear to God I thought of posting the same, but then had pity on Wham.

riversandlakes · Post by **riversandlakes** » Fri, 16 Dec 2005 10:29 pm

Wham, the idea came from an article on the Net, if you actually read the article and my post? Please stop accusing people of hiding under stones or shelters - that's already considered a personal attack.
Or you can clarify your definition. Somewhat a steadfast faith to everything GWB does?

Chill, man...

The post was asking if one action led to another. Life is like that, do you not agree. It's obvious what my personal views are on the competency of some people who wield so much power in the sole superpower in the world today, but heck, he was democratically elected...

Khatami might very well have been collateral-damage. Instead of courting and enhancing conservationism in an already non-democractic Supreme Leader-system Iran, the whole country was branded as the Axis of Evil.
I came from an Islamic country. While the religion strangely cuts off one's hand for stealing, it DOES NOT condone evil of any kind.
Look, I am also a Catholic, and looking at the Crusades we all know who was more evil in conduct for the past thousand years and today. Hell, the Fourth Crusade sacked (loot, rape, pillage, etc) the other centre of Christendom - Constantinople!

So why such branding (as in branding a herd of cattle in a ranch *hint*)? Now it has led to this.

And that is what the article prophesied...

Vaucluse · Post by **Vaucluse** » Fri, 16 Dec 2005 10:42 pm

Wham wrote:I LIKE the sound of that!

...next thing we know you will be MARCHING OFF TO TAKE TEHRAN!!!

Umm, can I drive?

I wonder if we could make alot of money there importing deodorant and shaving cream - how about neckties . . . (Listerine would go down a treat, I'm sure)

riversandlakes · Post by **riversandlakes** » Fri, 16 Dec 2005 10:56 pm

Let me join in:

this is completely unacceptable.

T2K · Post by **T2K** » Sat, 17 Dec 2005 2:49 pm

Vaucluse wrote:
T2K wrote:The "axis of evil" thing was a bit too melodramatic for me.

However, the Iranians elected this guy. He's a nutjob. That some people can blame the US just shows how pervasive the "victim mentality" is around the world. Everything is someone else's fault.

Seeing the Euroids squirm is kind of funny though. They can appease and accomodate on just about any issue, BUT the holocaust (especially to the Germans) is sacrosanct.

Their response: we're going to get together, and issue a JOINT EU STATEMENT and WE'RE NOT GOING TO FORGET THIS FOR AT LEAST A LITTLE WHILE. Really, they need to harden up a bit if they want anyone to take them seriously. Kissing islamic ass doesn't earn you any credit, as Paris showed recently.

And T2K, what response would you advocate - it's fine to constantly criticise Europe for their action, or inaction - but try to offer an alternative that doesn't involve invading someone.

Do you also think Europe is wrong in it's attitude towards Cuba?

At least seeing people squirm is better than seeing pople unleash murder and mayhem with a silly grin on their face and then lie about the reason.

No doubt this freak is a total and complete whacko - even his own government is embarrased and trying to find ways of shutting him up.

Now, back to the original question before Wham (back to his former glory) and T2K vent theirs on the Europeans again . . .

Can one build a case for the marginalisation of Iran by the US? Of course one can if one goes back far enough. Having said that, one can also build a case for the same by Finland, Madagascar, Fiji and Sao Tome and Principe.

Intellectualising something is ever so easy.

Europe needs to make it clear that this kind of talk, which incites and justifies continued instability in the Middle East, is not without consequences. They should ask that he retract it, or "clarify" his statements. This is exactly why Iran should not be allowed to get nuclear weapons, and the West needs to be firm and united on this. Iran is not responsible enough to have nukes - they might use them aggressively or give them to those that will.

Cuba? US policy seems anachronistic and pointless. We should normalize relations with them.

Vaucluse · Post by **Vaucluse** » Sat, 17 Dec 2005 2:55 pm

Hmm, we agree on Cuba . . . could this be the start of thawing bilateral feelings?

I believe Germany and Austria did condemn this arsehols quite thoroughly and yes, it would be a disaster for them to have access to nuclear weapons technology . . . but it doesn't really matter as Israel will omb the crap out of any facility they build anyway. Let them spend the money just to see it all go up in smoke anyway.

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American foreign policy to blame in Iran?

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