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American foreign policy to blame in Iran?

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American foreign policy to blame in Iran?

Postby riversandlakes » Fri, 16 Dec 2005 4:57 am

Read a documentary the other day, and it's so possible...

From Nixon Center http://tinyurl.com/dy3sw
"In the short run labeling Iran "an evil" state has undoubtedly strengthened hard-liners and further weakened Khatami. However most Iranians know that their long term national interests are not served by playing with fire."

Mr Extreme Hardliner just myth-ed the Holocaust and then asked for the Europeans to provide lands for the Jews to call home. Shortly after he called for the destruction of the state of Israel.

But who's direct puerile statement should be blamed for today's pressurized Middle East?

UPDATE: As we all know, Khatami is no longer in office.
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Postby Wham » Fri, 16 Dec 2005 7:57 am

Rivers Lakes and sweet little day dreams,

Did it ever occur to you that Iran DOES HAVE evil intentions - that they don't give a HOOT about you and you wonderful vision for a happy world - that they would be happy if you were dead - and that perhaps GW WAS RIGHT? I have personally thought that the US embargo v Iran was a waste of time and that more could be gained by engaging the Iranians; however, the recent speechs by the President of Iran about the Holocaust being fiction etc. is just INSANE and a sign of what we are dealing with. Nevertheless, I DO find it refreshing, because at least now the world CAN KNOW - LOUD AND CLEAR - just what we are facing in Iran. If you are trying to blame GW for the Iranian stupidity, then you need to wake up and read the newspaper.

Please don't take this personally because i am not attacking you - but i am attacking your idea because it is just SO STUPID.
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Postby den » Fri, 16 Dec 2005 9:25 am

all "evil intentions" countries have oil, which going to end at the middle of the century, WWIII is near - say “thank you”

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Postby Wham » Fri, 16 Dec 2005 9:57 am

Rivers and Lakes,

Please tell me. Do you agree with the Iranian policy towards Israel? Because it sounds like you do. I am just curious if you are anit-semitic.

Also, if you are looking for someone to blame for the current state of affairs with Iran - try Jacques Chirac and the EU members that have so far been appeasing the Iranians while they march down the road to Armegeddon.
"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man." Samuel Johnson

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Postby Wham » Fri, 16 Dec 2005 10:08 am

This is what i really think. The Europeans are a bunch of dreaming sheep who have lost all conception of how to deal with a real threat. They are really upset with Ahmadinejad right now, not because they really care about him being a raving lunatic 6 months away from having nukes, but because all this open Holocaust denial and talk of wiping Israel off the map makes it all so embarassing. I mean couldn't he just shut up and get on with the program? The Europeans are perfectly resigned to having El Baradei quietly leave the keys to the nuclear club under the matt round by
the back door, but really would like to avoid the discomfort of a
full-blown singing and dancing Hitler-revival show coming across the
front lawn. Unfortunately, their solution is obvious. Do nothing.
Force the US and/or Israel to deal with it. Then go apeshit
criticising us/them for doing it. Don't even need a new playbook
for that one.
"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man." Samuel Johnson

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Postby dot dot dot » Fri, 16 Dec 2005 10:55 am

Wham,

time for the relax and let go pill buddy... :wink:

And just before you start targeting me now: I am all with you on your views here... :D

Eric

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Postby Wham » Fri, 16 Dec 2005 11:09 am

ok Eric - fair enough - i will chill. But i have to say, after ALL that Iran has recently done to CONFIRM that they ARE the leading member of the Axis of Evil - to have someone now suggest that it is Bush's fault just really made my blood boil. You can blame him for a lot of things - but this is INSANITY!

AND, unless people stand up and CALL IT INSANITY, then it becomes an accepted truth. THere are generations of Muslims in the middle east who actually beleive that the Holocaust did not happen BECAUSE there is no rational voice shouting them down.
"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man." Samuel Johnson

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Postby den » Fri, 16 Dec 2005 11:38 am

Some European countries also have different point of view on WWII history, for example new EU members like Estonia or Latvia openly build monument in memory local Nazis forces, like "SS". They claim this “SS”

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Postby Wham » Fri, 16 Dec 2005 11:46 am

NEWSFLASH: Israel (as much as i don't like their treatment of the Palistinians) does not go around threatening to "wipe other countries of the map" whereas Iran does. As far as i am concerned, that is a darn good reason to do everything we can to stop them.
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Postby T2K » Fri, 16 Dec 2005 11:46 am

The "axis of evil" thing was a bit too melodramatic for me.

However, the Iranians elected this guy. He's a nutjob. That some people can blame the US just shows how pervasive the "victim mentality" is around the world. Everything is someone else's fault.

Seeing the Euroids squirm is kind of funny though. They can appease and accomodate on just about any issue, BUT the holocaust (especially to the Germans) is sacrosanct.

Their response: we're going to get together, and issue a JOINT EU STATEMENT and WE'RE NOT GOING TO FORGET THIS FOR AT LEAST A LITTLE WHILE. Really, they need to harden up a bit if they want anyone to take them seriously. Kissing islamic ass doesn't earn you any credit, as Paris showed recently.

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Postby CardZeus » Fri, 16 Dec 2005 2:23 pm

Wham wrote:NEWSFLASH: Israel (as much as i don't like their treatment of the Palistinians) does not go around threatening to "wipe other countries of the map" whereas Iran does. As far as i am concerned, that is a darn good reason to do everything we can to stop them.


Less of the sweeping generalisations, Wham, ONE man says these things (solely to evoke the type of response you have posted), and you're ready to invade...And I would guess the majority of Iranian people don't agree with this madman's views either - but what the heck they'll just be 'collateral damage'

Isn't a stockpile of some 100 nuclear weapons a threat..?
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Postby Wham » Fri, 16 Dec 2005 2:49 pm

CardSZeus,

The MAJORITY of the Iranian people DID vote for him - and i recently saw the results of a survey that showed that MAJORITY of Iranians DO believe that the Holocaust didn't happen. Now mind you, this is the LEADER of their country speaking. In my not so humble opinion, anything short of an extremely loud and universal condemnation of this rhetoric will just make him stronger.

Imagine your sitting in Israel listening to this BS, and then you look over toward Europe and what do you hear? A lot of mumbling so far...
"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man." Samuel Johnson

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Postby CardZeus » Fri, 16 Dec 2005 2:50 pm

...I'm sure God will tell GWB what to do anyway...
The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is at all comprehensible.

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Postby CardZeus » Fri, 16 Dec 2005 2:54 pm

Wham wrote:CardSZeus,

The MAJORITY of the Iranian people DID vote for him - and i recently saw the results of a survey that showed that MAJORITY of Iranians DO believe that the Holocaust didn't happen. Now mind you, this is the LEADER of their country speaking. In my not so humble opinion, anything short of an extremely loud and universal condemnation of this rhetoric will just make him stronger.

Imagine your sitting in Israel listening to this BS, and then you look over toward Europe and what do you hear? A lot of mumbling so far...


The majority(?) of people voted for GWB - doesn't mean the majority agrees with what he's done... Yes I agree that this man is a fool, but the extremely loud and universal condemnation that you talk about may be just the response he is after...
The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is at all comprehensible.

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Postby Wham » Fri, 16 Dec 2005 2:56 pm

right...

all just so funny that whole anit-semetic wipe Israel off the map - a real hoot.

Would Singapore find it equally amusing if one of her two very close neighbors started whipping up the winds of war and threatening to wipe her off the map. I don't think so...
"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man." Samuel Johnson


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