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ATM error

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Cuchu
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ATM error

Postby Cuchu » Sat, 03 Dec 2005 1:33 pm

I need some advice especially maybe from people who were in the same shoes...

I made 2 cash cards/ATM cards of the same bank account abroad of mine (abroad in a sense it's not back home nor in Singapore).
One card is to be used domestically in the country where the bank is and another one is an international one to withdraw or make other possible transactions in any ATM outside the country of the issuer bank with the PLUS sign.

I gave my international cash card to my sister for her to withdraw some cash of the currency back home in any ATM with the PLUS sign back home. Of course I told her what the PIN number is also.
Apparently either because of the limit of cash that can be withdrawn in one time from an ATM back home or my sister's paranoia somehow to withdraw a big amount in one time, she withdrew once from a particular local bank's ATM one time without any problem and for some reason (I think cause the bill they had is a smaller one only at that time) she moved to a different bank's ATM to withdraw again.

And on the second bank's ATM, when she tried to withdraw, the process took longer than usual, resulting with the ATM telling her that her withdrawal request couldn't be processed. She tried again, without checking the balance and just input the amount she wanted to withdraw on the previous attempt. This time the ATM told her that the fund wasn't enough.

She was bewildered about it thinking that it's supposed to be enough, so she checked the balance this time. Imagine her surprise and mine after she told me, that the balance was already deducted with the amount of the previous attempt (that resulted in the error message saying the request couldn't be processed) even though no cash came out of the bloody ATM machine.

She went to the bank's staff to inquire and basically after some debate, the bank was telling her that since the account and the cash card is not issued by them and by the bank abroad, we should ask the issuer bank to check the transaction records of the account of that day, and returned the fund to my account if the balance in the record they have and the record in the ATM are different.

I inquired the issuer bank and basically they have the same record, so with the already wrongly deducted balance at the end. I explained that the bank of the ATM was not being cooperative and so at the end the issuer bank told me that what they can do is to request "charge back" to the bank of the ATM, to return the fund to my account of the amount that was wrongly deducted.
However, they warned me that there is no guarantee since the local bank might think that it's a fraud attempt.
And so to sort of guarantee the charge back process is going to be processed properly, I asked my sister to inquire the local bank to check the particular ATM's records of the day, comparing the amount of cash in the beginning and the end of the day and the total from the transactions done in that ATM on that day. or check their security camera to see for themselves if my sister did take some cash from the bloody machine or whatever it is that needs to be done.

However, the local bank was just saying that they can't do it and they refused to tell us why even.
If you were in my shoes, what would you do? I to be honest can't really think straight now cause of the shock still cause the amount is actually quite big *sigh* :cry:
So any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks.

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vaishali
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Postby vaishali » Sat, 03 Dec 2005 1:43 pm

Nearly all banks have a certain daily limit that is allowed to be taken out (usually equivalent to the local currency). You can't go over that amount or the atm won't allow you to take out any more money. If your sister tries again tomorrow for the same amount, it should work fine.

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Postby Cuchu » Sat, 03 Dec 2005 4:51 pm

No, I think you misunderstood it...
It's not about she couldn't withdraw after withdrawing twice.
But the problem is that after the 3rd withdrawal attempt, the balance was deducted even though there was no cash going out from the machine...
So it was only the data that was deducted which I consider as the error.

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Postby Scorpion » Sat, 03 Dec 2005 6:58 pm

in this cases mostly all the atm's print a receipt if the transaction was successfull with the amount withdrawn or if it was a failure with an error code.

just make sure that you have the receipt of the foreign atm that you sister was accessing.

for info, whats the local bank that you are dealing with.. :? may be most of the singapore or international bank has the online ebanking facility where you can look into the statement.

hope it helps
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Postby k1w1 » Sat, 03 Dec 2005 9:07 pm

If she doesn't have a recepit, she's in the shtook. What about a camera? I don't know how much you can see on them, but that could be worth trying...

Surely the bank keeps a record of how much cash they have in the machine, and how many notes are distributed in any given period. This should show that the cash was not withdrawn.

Anyway, you should act now! Call your bank helpline and tell them what has happened. Might not wat to mention that you gave out your PIN though, otherwise they could easily point the finger in your sister's direction.

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Postby Scorpion » Sat, 03 Dec 2005 10:24 pm

k1w1 wrote:..
Might not wat to mention that you gave out your PIN though, otherwise they could easily point the finger in your sister's direction.

It depends upon the account type you hold, personal or joint account.
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Postby k1w1 » Sat, 03 Dec 2005 11:09 pm

Hmm, now I'm guessing since she had to give her card to her sister as well as tell her the PIN, that they don't share the account. I've also seen the other thread by Cuchu asking how to send money overseas, and it looks like she chose a bad option - certainly, that's the way the bank's going to see it anyway. Sometimes, you're just better off paying the transaction charges...

Edit: spell check

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Cuchu
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Postby Cuchu » Sun, 04 Dec 2005 8:56 am

Yeah a bad option I guess *sigh*
It's my own personal account actually not a joint one.
Unfortunately this is the thing, she didn't keep all of the receipts and the withdrawal attempt with the error didn't produce any receipt actually which is quite odd now that I remember in Japan there would be even though it's blank on the amount part. I must admit I really blew up to my sister after hearing that, but by now what's done is done, and there is no good in criticising somebody who already feels deeply guilty even though I still see it as the machine's error as she just processed the withdrawal request the usual way.

So still, basically it is the machine's error the way I see it to process a withdrawal request only on the computer data which can happen to me myself as well I suppose if I were back home using the same card and the same dodgy ATM...

Hence I was hoping to have the local bank to be cooperative and responsive in replying to our inquiry to check their security camera and the balance of their ATM's cash and records, basically whatever it takes for them to confirm that we are not doing any fraud and I would actually be glad for them to do it as we are just trying to retrieve what is ours in the first place... the lost money that is.

The thing is it does seem that the bank is not really obliged to answer to such query to a small-time customer... doesn't it? What can one do to sort of force a bank to do that? I was thinking I probably can write to have my complaint published on the "To The Editor" type of column on a local newspapers or keep bugging their call centre or report the case to the local police so they can issue a warrant or such.

But then I heard from my brother that it wouldn't be a good idea as for one considering how notoriously known that the police is corrupted back home, most likely before they process anything they would ask for an "envelope money" which means more lost again, and two since the bank's big part at least if not the whole is owned by a triad, it might not be a good idea to piss them off...
It's a bank in Indonesia actually called Lippo, which probably for those who travel heaps to Indonesia on business and often withdraw using their cash card of their account abroad would like to keep in mind to avoid my headache now! :cry:

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Postby Carpe Diem » Sun, 04 Dec 2005 9:24 am

I don't want to accuse anybody here...

BUT if the ATM did not deliver money nor receipt and the amount was deducted from the account, another possibility is that the person who had the card is not telling the truth??
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Postby Cuchu » Sun, 04 Dec 2005 12:01 pm

What happens to innocent till proven otherwise?
If they do want to verify which they can, as I said before, the bank can compare the balance of the cash and the total transactions of the day of the particular ATM and also check the security camera to see if the cash is taken on that particular time and transaction...
We actually have been asking the bank to do so yet the bank refused, which implies guilty beyond reasonable doubt kind of view? *sigh*


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