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ringo100
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Postby ringo100 » Sat, 03 Dec 2005 1:40 pm

It's not Aus government’s job to care about non-Aus citizens. But it is almost always western countries that put pressure on countries with human rights abuses. Currently only the US wants Burma to surface as an issue in the UN Security Council.

It's just funny when we talk about drugs that we are happy to compare marihuana, e, speed etc to heroin. It is stupid. If we say drugs are bad we should include tobacco, alcohol, caffeine delivery products etc.

I tired drugs at university along with almost all of my peers. It didn't destroy my life it didn't destroy their lives. In fact I know more people who have died from lung cancer or have had their lives destroyed by drink than I know people who have OD'd or ended up in rehab.

It is a lot easier for a heroin addict (with a daily supply) to live a normal productive life as compared to drunk who cannot function properly most of the time. My Girlfriends father lived for 10 years as a heroin addict working a tax consultant in London. My great uncle died of liver failure at the are 58 after his poor family went through years of punishment. What cuases a lot of the problems is restricting the supply.

Drugs do destroy lives like tobacco and alcohol but they don’t always destroy lives (in the majority they don’t).

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Postby banana » Sat, 03 Dec 2005 3:22 pm

Drugs don't kill people. drug laws do.

OD cases more often than not result from the user not knowing the purity of their gear that they just bought from Hobo Joe down the back alley. Let's say Soma Sam has been getting 23% purity all this while, usually requiring 2 hits to put him in the zone. One day his dealer Hobo Joe acquired a batch of 90% by some stroke of good fortune. Putting two hits of that into his system is bound to fck Sam up a little. Nothing major, just frothing at the mouth, losing consciousness, muscle spasms and his heart stopping.

For the denser folks out there, people are going to get high no matter what. Just because your choice of poison is legal does not make you a better person.
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 03 Dec 2005 5:02 pm

banana wrote:Drugs don't kill people. drug laws do.

OD cases more often than not result from the user not knowing the purity of their gear that they just bought from Hobo Joe down the back alley. Let's say Soma Sam has been getting 23% purity all this while, usually requiring 2 hits to put him in the zone. One day his dealer Hobo Joe acquired a batch of 90% by some stroke of good fortune. Putting two hits of that into his system is bound to fck Sam up a little. Nothing major, just frothing at the mouth, losing consciousness, muscle spasms and his heart stopping.

For the denser folks out there, people are going to get high no matter what. Just because your choice of poison is legal does not make you a better person.


So am I to understand that, by your statement, you are all for legalizing drugs for consumption by all and sundry? Or are you just playing the devils idiot? sorry - advocate.

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Postby banana » Sat, 03 Dec 2005 7:08 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:So am I to understand that, by your statement, you are all for legalizing drugs for consumption by all and sundry? Or are you just playing the devils idiot? sorry - advocate.


I am saying there are better ways to do things without having to demonise a group of people or a perfectly good painkiller. The war on drugs is nothing more than emotional manipulation feeding on the fear of the general unthinking populace.

Heroin is a perfect replicant of endorphins that is naturally produced in your body. Maybe we should also hang people who have higher pain thresholds? Reductio ad absurdum. By criminalising this across the board, we are denying terminal patients effective pain relief and have to settle for 2nd rate alternatives. Anyone who's had to go on morphine will know it doesn't really remove the pain, it just depersonalises it.

Decriminalise it, legalise it, regulate it. In other words, put some fcking effort into ensuring the health and happiness of all and sundry. That's what we elect governments for.
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Postby Plavt » Sat, 03 Dec 2005 7:42 pm

[quote="banana]
Heroin is a perfect replicant of endorphins .


Says who? In the words of a nurse (not me) "heroin is not the kind of thing you give a patient to take home with them!".


Plavt.
Last edited by Plavt on Sat, 03 Dec 2005 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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.....

Postby ringo100 » Sat, 03 Dec 2005 7:43 pm

I my opinion we would a lot safer if all the heroin addicts were given all the drugs they wanted. This way they wouldn't be robbing old ladies trying to get there next fix.

Also as people can function normally on most of these drugs, provided they take them, they could hold jobs and pay taxes instead of robbing/killing for some more money.

If drugs were legal and taxed their would be less crime/more tax i.e. a lot more money to pump back into education and rehab centers. The drugs would also be a lot safer for the user as it wouldn’t be cut with any old sh*t.

I totally agree drug taking is harmful to society (when I say drugs I include alcohol and cigarettes) but I think we are arguing there may be more intelligent ways to solve the problem instead of close mindedly saying: Just Ban It.

In addition, every adult knows the consequence of drug taking if people want to do it let them. I am not including selling drugs to children here.

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Postby banana » Sat, 03 Dec 2005 7:58 pm

Plavt wrote:[quote="banana]
Heroin is a perfect replicant of endorphins .


Says who? In the words of a nurse (not me) "heroin is not the kind of thing you give a patient to take home with them!".


Plavt.


You don't take morphine home either do you?
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Postby Plavt » Sat, 03 Dec 2005 8:15 pm

banana wrote:
Plavt wrote:[quote="banana]
Heroin is a perfect replicant of endorphins .


Says who? In the words of a nurse (not me) "heroin is not the kind of thing you give a patient to take home with them!".


Plavt.


You don't take morphine home either do you?


I think its about time somebody peeled you.

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Postby banana » Sat, 03 Dec 2005 8:31 pm

cry fase
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Postby Plavt » Sat, 03 Dec 2005 9:12 pm

Banana,


It is clear you will stop at nothing to justify your own arguments as well as persistently having to have the last say. Yes, there are drugs and there are drugs, the point is some are a good deal more dangerous than others.
In the UK the police and the government to some extent are less concerned about marijuana than they used to be. However, drugs such as morphine, Heroin and others are those which are highly addictive and it is much more difficult to treat people. In addition the use of needles is not only dangerous to the user since AIDS is more likely to be spread but to the public since the needles are discarded without any regard to to others including children. I have seen such discarded on the estate where I live and it is no use saying simply the caretaker should clean them up - he or she cannot be everywhere all the time. No doubt you will have the usual banal one line answers to this as usual.

Plavt.

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....

Postby ringo100 » Sat, 03 Dec 2005 9:46 pm

I think the question is: what is the best way to reduce the effect that drugs have on society? I think that legalising and controlling it is preferential to allowing gangsters control it.

I would rather drugs were controlled by the government than by criminals. The biggest lobby group in favour of keeping drugs illegal are the gangsters.

I think if in the UK they legalised drugs and prostitution, but tightly controlled it, where would organised crime get it's income. The best way to beat them is to make them bankrupt.

It is different here in Singapore, they have got drugs more under control than in the UK, not because of the death penalty but because it is the size the Isle of Wight

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Re: ....

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 03 Dec 2005 10:14 pm

ringo100 wrote:It is different here in Singapore, they have got drugs more under control than in the UK, not because of the death penalty but because it is the size the Isle of Wight


Actually, this is the same worn-out excuse again and again. Yes, it is easier the police with a small island nation rather than a landlocked one. But isn't that a copout? What you are NOT saying is if the governments didn't listen to every bleedin' heart and special interest group like what happens in the UK, Aus & the US and they used the maximum punishment it would soon change the way people look at it. You would be surprised how much area you can control if you just quit bending the laws to suit the next election.

And, from inside knowledge, I beg to differ with you. It IS because of the death penalty that it is more under control here. The size of the island means nothing if the courts let them get off with a slap on the wrists.

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Re: ....

Postby Plavt » Sat, 03 Dec 2005 10:28 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
ringo100 wrote:It is different here in Singapore, they have got drugs more under control than in the UK, not because of the death penalty but because it is the size the Isle of Wight


Actually, this is the same worn-out excuse again and again. Yes, it is easier the police with a small island nation rather than a landlocked one. But isn't that a copout? What you are NOT saying is if the governments didn't listen to every bleedin' heart and special interest group like what happens in the UK, Aus & the US and they used the maximum punishment it would soon change the way people look at it. You would be surprised how much area you can control if you just quit bending the laws to suit the next election.

And, from inside knowledge, I beg to differ with you. It IS because of the death penalty that it is more under control here. The size of the island means nothing if the courts let them get off with a slap on the wrists.


Point to remember about the UK; from a personal point of view along with many others, the death penalty is unwelcome. The reason being the judiciary has so often proved a colossal failure. There have been a considerable number of wrongful convictions past and present and no doubt more will come to light. Singapore is fortunate that most of its police officers are relaiable as I am told by at least one Malaysian PR.

Plavt.


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Postby banana » Sat, 03 Dec 2005 10:37 pm

Plavt wrote:Banana,


It is clear you will stop at nothing to justify your own arguments as well as persistently having to have the last say. Yes, there are drugs and there are drugs, the point is some are a good deal more dangerous than others.
In the UK the police and the government to some extent are less concerned about marijuana than they used to be. However, drugs such as morphine, Heroin and others are those which are highly addictive and it is much more difficult to treat people. In addition the use of needles is not only dangerous to the user since AIDS is more likely to be spread but to the public since the needles are discarded without any regard to to others including children. I have seen such discarded on the estate where I live and it is no use saying simply the caretaker should clean them up - he or she cannot be everywhere all the time. No doubt you will have the usual banal one line answers to this as usual.

Plavt.


Wow such restrained words from a gentleman. No pandering with emotive arguments whatsoever, no personal attacks. I am deeply humbled by your obvious moral and intellectual superiority. You're probably in middle management as well. In case you were nodding your head, I was being sarcastic.

Fact of the matter is, you are the one that is stopping at nothing to justify your refusal to think for yourself, convinced that the status quo has to be the one and only way to live simply because it has worked for you. You are willing to see another die, no matter the circumstance, as long as you feel a little safer in your filthy lucre, as long as you have one less thing to take care of.

Let me state that in my humblest opinion, everyone has a responsibility towards making this world a better place for everyone else. And the fact is people who get high on heroin, marijuana, your grandma's knickers, whatever, have no intention to hurt anyone else but to explore other aspects of their psyche, to seek release from the pain wracked upon them by others who in the name of the almighty dollar sign and their own apathy are willing to intentionally commit all manner of deplorable acts. Just because it is justified with platitudes like "I'm creating jobs", "Sacrifices have to be made", "It's for my family", etc does not detract from the fact that there are better ways to do things.

Syringes lying around? Check out what's happened in Australia. Injecting rooms may not have totally wiped out the problem but it has certainly cleaned up a fair few areas.

The children, oh who will think of the children! Stop worshipping the ground of your leaders ya lazy git.
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Postby Plavt » Sat, 03 Dec 2005 10:59 pm

banana wrote:
Plavt wrote:Banana,


It is clear you will stop at nothing to justify your own arguments as well as persistently having to have the last say. Yes, there are drugs and there are drugs, the point is some are a good deal more dangerous than others.
In the UK the police and the government to some extent are less concerned about marijuana than they used to be. However, drugs such as morphine, Heroin and others are those which are highly addictive and it is much more difficult to treat people. In addition the use of needles is not only dangerous to the user since AIDS is more likely to be spread but to the public since the needles are discarded without any regard to to others including children. I have seen such discarded on the estate where I live and it is no use saying simply the caretaker should clean them up - he or she cannot be everywhere all the time. No doubt you will have the usual banal one line answers to this as usual.

Plavt.


Wow such restrained words from a gentleman. No pandering with emotive arguments whatsoever, no personal attacks. I am deeply humbled by your obvious moral and intellectual superiority. You're probably in middle management as well. In case you were nodding your head, I was being sarcastic.

Fact of the matter is, you are the one that is stopping at nothing to justify your refusal to think for yourself, convinced that the status quo has to be the one and only way to live simply because it has worked for you. You are willing to see another die, no matter the circumstance, as long as you feel a little safer in your filthy lucre, as long as you have one less thing to take care of.

Let me state that in my humblest opinion, everyone has a responsibility towards making this world a better place for everyone else. And the fact is people who get high on heroin, marijuana, your grandma's knickers, whatever, have no intention to hurt anyone else but to explore other aspects of their psyche, to seek release from the pain wracked upon them by others who in the name of the almighty dollar sign and their own apathy are willing to intentionally commit all manner of deplorable acts. Just because it is justified with platitudes like "I'm creating jobs", "Sacrifices have to be made", "It's for my family", etc does not detract from the fact that there are better ways to do things.

Syringes lying around? Check out what's happened in Australia. Injecting rooms may not have totally wiped out the problem but it has certainly cleaned up a fair few areas.

The children, oh who will think of the children! Stop worshipping the ground of your leaders ya lazy git.


Unfortunately for you I am not in middle management - mere 'working class' and no supporter of the death penalty either(you obviously didnt see the post prior before blasting off at me). Your second paragraph is little more than excuse for those who cannot face reality and evidence that the writer himself is most likely a drug addict. As for injecting rooms - hardly the answer is it? Sorry to disappoint you but I don't worship the ground of my leaders - so much for your arrogance!

Plavt.


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