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Van Nguyen Prayer Thread

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 29 Nov 2005 8:59 pm

Bubbles wrote:Enough, enough, for God's sake. Yes, any God, yours, mine, or no God at all type folk.

This is all about HUMAN COMPASSION. Can't you see this?

Where is your compassion?

Whatever you think about this young man, or any person who sells drugs, or worse, for kindness and humanness, can't you put your hand on your heart and FEEL for them?

This man is going to DIE. Surely that is the ultimate price anyone can pay and having paid it surely his slate should be wiped clean.

And if you believe in any God, then you must also believe he has a greater judge to face after death, and be even sorrier for him?

These kind thoughts are about the living. His mother, his brother, father, family. Leaving religion aside, it's a mark of humanity to be able to empathize with how this dreadful act will affect them.

Why do you take this thread and turn it into some sort of academic exercise of how vile you can be?

All this person was asking for was a little thought, sent out on the modern medium of the internet, yes, ok, in the form of a religious prayer, but you don't have to be religious to be heartsore for the family.

The boy is living now, yes, he did wrong, very wrong, but EVERYONE deserves forgiveness. On Thursday night he will still be breathing, maybe eating, crying, wanting to hold his mum. On Friday morning that woman will watch as the baby she gave birth to is hung by the neck till dead.
Every last second she will watch. Never having been allowed to touch him, even till then. Knowing that the rope is strangling his lifeforce. What will those last seconds glances be like? How will she ever live a normal life again? What shitty, filthy routes and turnabouts and chances in life has brought this family to this ending?

How can we sit here and say, 'He deserves it' when but for the grace of God, or whoever it is you believe in, go we? What if our parents had split, what if our mothers had been thrown out on the street? What if she'd gone to prostitution to keep a roof over our heads? What if having to sleep with hundreds of disgusting men was too much for her? What if she turned to drugs to ease the pain? All these things, and much worse, happen to totally nice folk, and yes, they can all be called 'bad' things. But tell me truthfully, do folks deserve to meet despicable ends because of life happenings?

DON'T WE ALL DESERVE A SECOND CHANCE, OR IF NOT, FORGIVENESS FOR OUR 'SINS?'

OK, this young man may have had a 'normal' life, but where is your humanity that you cannot, in your heart, reach out and think, 'Poor thing, let's hope he does not suffer and is forgiven?'

That's all I ask.

Bubbs.


Bubbs,

Sorry, but I have to be upfront here. . . . I was going to respond, nay, I already had been typing for quite a while then I decided to delete the whole thing as I found myself getting more agitated. I feel compassion for the mothers of vermin like Van. But that's all. It wouldn't change my opinion one iota however. Soulless, emotionless? No. Maybe too much emotion for those that escaped the evil that the vermin was, knowingly and with forethought, going to deliver. He's no different that the person who mails letters thru the post filled with Anthrax in my book. The mailer doesn't know if he will kill anybody either. BUT he knows it's highly likely just like Van did. To me he is little different than a terrorist.

sms


sms

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Postby Mary Hatch Bailey » Tue, 29 Nov 2005 9:44 pm

SMS, you deserve heaps of respect as you are the only one here (no doubt) who has any direct experience with the horrors of institutional government-sanctioned death. For that reason, I believe you make a very valid contribution to this discussion and indeed, the broader scope of the entire forum. My hat is off to you.

Bremen & Baron, I have enjoyed your banter, I really have. I read the entire thread and thought: these guys are too much! But ultimately Bubbs is right. It is a life. Potential that is snuffed out. I remember an interview I heard with Elie Wiesel, a few years ago -- about the possibilities wasted in the death camps in Germany. "Who knows what burned up in the ovens, may be the cure for cancer." Like I said initially, this is a lose-lose situation.

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Postby Bremen » Tue, 29 Nov 2005 11:43 pm

Mary Hatch Bailey wrote:
Bremen & Baron, I have enjoyed your banter, I really have. I read the entire thread and thought: these guys are too much! But ultimately Bubbs is right. It is a life. Potential that is snuffed out.


Well, it's all fun...

As for "potential that is snuffed out"... Well, what about the potential that would have been snuffed out by the heroin he was carrying? It's his own potential he himself snuffed out when he agreed to be a mule.
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
- Terry Pratchett

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Postby Mary Hatch Bailey » Wed, 30 Nov 2005 6:06 am

Bremen wrote:Well, what about the potential that would have been snuffed out by the heroin he was carrying? It's his own potential he himself snuffed out when he agreed to be a mule.


Granted. But I guess the difference is that its the government which is exacting the ultimate penalty. I'm glad I had more advantages at 22.

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Postby k1w1 » Wed, 30 Nov 2005 8:47 am

Mary Hatch Bailey wrote: I'm glad I had more advantages at 22.


Amen.

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Postby Bubbles » Thu, 01 Dec 2005 8:41 pm

What's the latest with this, any change?

Can't seem to get any info on the net.

Bubbs.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Dylan Thomas.

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Postby Saint » Thu, 01 Dec 2005 8:47 pm


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Postby Bremen » Thu, 01 Dec 2005 9:47 pm

There was something about it in today's "Today". Apparently, the SG consul to australia wrote an article titled "fact vs. fiction" or something like that, and theage (theage.com.au) decided to rename it to "Why Van Nguyen must die". :P
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

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Postby Plavt » Thu, 01 Dec 2005 10:10 pm

Bubbles wrote:What's the latest with this, any change?

Can't seem to get any info on the net.

Bubbs.


Don't quite know what you mean by change Bubbles but you can be sure the Singapore government won't change it's mind.


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Postby Plavt » Thu, 01 Dec 2005 10:36 pm

Probably the last piece of news;

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17431097-2,00.html

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Postby Bubbles » Fri, 02 Dec 2005 1:25 am

Turn away now if you don't like swearing or you don't agree with this young man being saved.

F..ing shitty life....

The mum's face

My God, what a world.

Yes he knew, yes he did wrong, and yes, in law he must face the consequences, but I know I'm not the only one who will be thinking of him tonight. It's 5.25pm here in the UK, that means it's 1.25am there in Sing.

Four and a half hours to live, I am lost for words.

God rest his soul.

Bubbs.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.



Dylan Thomas.

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Postby Plavt » Fri, 02 Dec 2005 2:58 am

Bubbles wrote:Turn away now if you don't like swearing or you don't agree with this young man being saved.

F..ing shitty life....

The mum's face

My God, what a world.

Yes he knew, yes he did wrong, and yes, in law he must face the consequences, but I know I'm not the only one who will be thinking of him tonight. It's 5.25pm here in the UK, that means it's 1.25am there in Sing.

Four and a half hours to live, I am lost for words.

God rest his soul.

Bubbs.


I can understand your sentiments as I am no supporter of the death penalty here in the UK. Unfortunately this scenario won't be the last.
I just wish when people enter Singapore they would understand 'Mercy and compassion are words that have been thrown out the window!'*

Chief Justice:* Yong Pung How.

Plavt.

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Postby Vaucluse » Fri, 02 Dec 2005 7:59 am

Plavt wrote:
Bubbles wrote:
God rest his soul.

Bubbs.


I can understand your sentiments as I am no supporter of the death penalty here in the UK. Unfortunately this scenario won't be the last.
I just wish when people enter Singapore they would understand 'Mercy and compassion are words that have been thrown out the window!'*

Chief Justice:* Yong Pung How.

Plavt.



Well, Plavt - maybe it woul be better if selfish individuals would not put governments into this position where they have to carry out their laws.

I just wish people entering Singapore would understand that drugs have no place here - be it the airport, harbour, flats or anywhere.

So, the young man is dead - but there are alraedy more Aussies lining up with drugs attacehd to their bodies - see Mauritius - and several more on death row in Vietnam, for example. Where is the outcry there?
......................................................

'nuff said Image

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Postby Plavt » Fri, 02 Dec 2005 8:32 am

I agree wholeheartedly Mr Vaucluse. I was just empathizing what Singapore's attitude to drugs is not that one should need to. I really don't know why it doesn't register with some people. Whether one approves of the death penalty or not that's the law and in all fairness Singapore makes no secret of it. I think it is true to say not only of Singapore but also of Malaysia and those countries you mention above: you cannot say you have not been warned.


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Postby Ecka Dimmock » Fri, 02 Dec 2005 9:23 am

Well, it is done. I must say that by all accounts Van himself showed admirable courage, and seems to have used his time in prison to make peace with himself, his family and God.

What's also notable is the reaction of ordinary Australians (an no, Vaucluse, I don't mean the government) and the outpouring of grief - not for a good looking white person this time, but for an Asian refugee convicted of a crime.

Australia has a soul that I wouldn't swap for all the shopping malls in Orchard Road.


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