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Vaucluse
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Postby Vaucluse » Fri, 04 Nov 2005 9:23 am

:D Oh, you think? :lol:
......................................................

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Postby k1w1 » Fri, 04 Nov 2005 10:08 am

Bangladeshi wonder, I dunno what has got your knickers in a twist, but I can tell you flat out right that I think racism is despicable filth. I asked you where you would rather be, because I don't know why someone would stay where they are not happy.

bangladeshi_wonder wrote:
k1w1 wrote:Just wondering, Bangladeshi Wonder, where do you think things might be better for you?

It's certainly not perfect here, but I am realistic enough (I think) to know that home (NZ) is certainly no better - for me anyway. This is one little island I will be happy to call home for a wee while yet.


For your first question, it's not DIRECTLY relevant to this discussion. This discussion centres around singapore and not somewhere else. I just injected a few contrarian ideas to this otherwise bland discussion. Most forumers are apparently of the opinion that singapore is heaven on earth while I merely pointed out that the same place, with the same peoples occupying it, is NOT quite as great if you happen to belong to some "undesired" group, say some undesired "nation" or "religion" or "race" or something along that line.



Yes, my statement was not directly related to the discussion, but hell neither were yours! That's the bit about discussing stuff: you get off track sometimes. Chill out dude!



Since you brought it up k1w1, is there anything remotely resembling a racial slur for people from Bangladesh in NZ? Is "Bangla" considered the worst of the worst slurs in NZ? I'd be glad to know if it exists over there. I'm pretty sure you'd be much better informed than myself on kiwi attitudes towards foreigners (which I suspect will be somewhat linear - as in either an attitude of disgust , or one of nonchalance or of admiration etc will exist and it will be the same for ALL foreigners. In singapore, certain foreigners are highly admired while others aren't even considered human, so the general attitude towards foreigners is not uniform, it varies greatly depending on who the foreigners are).


Okay, now this bit was just uncalled for. You obviously don't know ANYthing about NZ. We have four million people living in a fairly large amount of space. Virutally none of them are foreigners (and by this I mean, non-white), however there are are significant numbers of other races living there, and I am NOT naive enough to think that life is peachy for them. Nor was it for me. So I left. I have never heard the term "Bangla" before, and I expect you have not heard the term: gaijin.

For the second part of your post, I don't think I need to make a comment as that's just YOUR opinions.


Ri-i-ght. So I'll listen to your racist drivel and crap slung about my country and then you just throw what I say out the window as it's just my opinion. Good one.

This is one little island I will be happy to call home for a wee while yet.
Even if we were to ignore my comments as "foolish", wouldn't your own assertion above, that you won't like to stay in singapore for an extended period of time, tell us about how desirable, how great it is as a place to stay in?


I don't know how long I will stay here for, but if it makes you feel any better I don't have the high-life of some people here. I am the maid in our house and for kicks in the weekend I work (for money - not for love). As someone just getting started in life, I have figured that this is how things will work - just as anyone who has gotten further ahead than their parents did (without winning the lottery or inheriting a truckload of cash), that this will come through the sweat of my brow. Oh, and keeping my mouth shut and my head down at the right time. A lesson you have yet to learn, I see. Yeah, it's hard and we pay the price (very little family time and I don't remember the last time I went out with my husband ALONE, and our house is a pigsty all the time) but I don't want to work as a secretary or in a factory. This is where most of my family sit in life: working class people you might say. And I'm proud of them: I have their values and their work ethic. I now have huge debt to pay back for the education that I wanted but they could not afford. But why complain? We have choices to make every day. I made mine, and I think that compared to how my life could have been, I'm doing awesomely for 26. It was a massive risk for us coming here, but it was a bigger risk for us to stay where we were and never try. That's what I tell myself whenever I get resentful of other people having a life I don't have: I could be so much worse off.

Here's a little story for you: there is a maid in our condo (I talk to maids as they are often around during the day and they're the ones hanging around the pre-school at the same time as me - and I don't think they are any better or worse than me. At the end of the day, everyone's shit smells.) There's this one woman who is fom Sri Lanka and she has been living here for about five years, since her husband died and she was left with her two kids. She took a risk, she left her kids with her sister and brother and she came out here. She is always smiling because she feels lucky. I nearly cried right in front of her when she told me this, as I thought she was probably the most unlucky woman on earth. So when things get rough for me, I think about her and I see my kids everyday and I am happily married and while I am exhausted and struggling, I feel like the richest woman in the world.

SO I'm just wondering now, what things might be like for me in Bangladesh? You see, I'm a young white woman and I'm just wondering if people will assume that I have stacks of money that I was born into, or that I'm someone's wife and have an easy life that I have done nothing to get, or that maybe I'm just some do-gooder Christian there to get my quota of brownie points by chatting with the natives about my idea of heaven. You see, the same assumptions that you are furious about people making of you work both ways.

I know most of this post was off-topic, but I am just trying to point out that you are guilty of the same thing that you are slagging everyone else off for.

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Postby whatalark » Fri, 04 Nov 2005 10:26 am

wow kiwi, I like your attitude
no trees were hurt in the making of this post but a few electrons were terribly inconvenienced

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Fri, 04 Nov 2005 10:30 am

whatalark wrote:wow kiwi, I like your attitude

i second that sentiment.

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Postby Vaucluse » Fri, 04 Nov 2005 11:52 am

K1w1, I must take umbrage at one statement:

At the end of the day, everyone's shit smells.)


Some people's faecal matter smells worse than others . . . (I'm sure Dhaka-Dude will point out that his crap was rejected by some toilet in Asia or New Zealand!!! Just another form of racism by us meanies)
......................................................



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Postby bangladeshi_wonder » Fri, 04 Nov 2005 1:09 pm

Vaucluse wrote:K1w1, I must take umbrage at one statement:

At the end of the day, everyone's shit smells.)


Some people's faecal matter smells worse than others . . . (I'm sure Dhaka-Dude will point out that his crap was rejected by some toilet in Asia or New Zealand!!! Just another form of racism by us meanies)


Apparently Vaucluse is no more than a shit-stirrer, quite literally. He loves dealing with shit, at least judging by what he wrote here.

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Postby Vaucluse » Fri, 04 Nov 2005 1:10 pm

bangladeshi_wonder wrote:
Vaucluse wrote:K1w1, I must take umbrage at one statement:

At the end of the day, everyone's shit smells.)


Some people's faecal matter smells worse than others . . . (I'm sure Dhaka-Dude will point out that his crap was rejected by some toilet in Asia or New Zealand!!! Just another form of racism by us meanies)


Apparently Vaucluse is no more than a shit-stirrer, quite literally. He loves dealing with shit, at least judging by what he wrote here.


I love dealing with you :kiss:
......................................................



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Postby sapphire » Fri, 04 Nov 2005 1:36 pm

Isn't 'Bangla' a language? Now its a racial slur as well? :o
It's not getting any smarter out there. You have to come to terms with stupidity, and make it work for you.

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Fri, 04 Nov 2005 1:43 pm

sapphire wrote:Isn't 'Bangla' a language? Now its a racial slur as well? :o

i thought bangla was just a short form for bangladeshi. no racial slur at all. there are two banglas who clean my estate and when i walk my dog everyday they wave happily and say hello and i wave happily back and say hello. just ordinary people doing our daily chores, and i appreciate their friendliness. they don't seem to resent me or think me racist just cos they're bangla. it's nice to know that some of them have a positive attitude to living and working in singapore.

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Postby tiki » Fri, 04 Nov 2005 1:43 pm

there's big money dealing in 'shit' Baya (or issit Baia?)..now that can't be a deragotary(sp) term.
'If you feel alive
in a darkened room
Do you know the name
of your solitude..'

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Postby sapphire » Fri, 04 Nov 2005 1:48 pm

Bangla or Bengali is also a language spoken in West Bengal, India. Also spoken in Bangladesh as well.
It's not getting any smarter out there. You have to come to terms with stupidity, and make it work for you.

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Postby bangladeshi_wonder » Fri, 04 Nov 2005 1:51 pm

k1w1 wrote:Bangladeshi wonder, I dunno what has got your knickers in a twist, but I can tell you flat out right that I think racism is despicable filth. I asked you where you would rather be, because I don't know why someone would stay where they are not happy.


Yes, my statement was not directly related to the discussion, but hell neither were yours! That's the bit about discussing stuff: you get off track sometimes. Chill out dude!





Okay, now this bit was just uncalled for. You obviously don't know ANYthing about NZ. We have four million people living in a fairly large amount of space. Virutally none of them are foreigners (and by this I mean, non-white), however there are are significant numbers of other races living there, and I am NOT naive enough to think that life is peachy for them. Nor was it for me. So I left. I have never heard the term "Bangla" before, and I expect you have not heard the term: gaijin.



It appears you assume a whole lot about myself. I didn't ask how much of a problem racism was for minorities or foreigners in NZ. I asked if there was a racial slur for people from Bangladesh in NZ, as they do in singapore. And if they do have one, is it considered among the worst of the worst slurs in that society? Quite straightforward a question it is, the way I see it.

However I have heard the term "gaijin". It's used in Japan to refer to ALL foreigners. And many people believe it's used in a derogatory manner. I also believe its usage is not restricted to any one particular group of foreigners in Japan but is applied towards ALL foreigners that don't look Japanese. Which would qualify myself as well as yourself for that slur in Japan.

Unlike in Singapore, where the worst racial slur is reserved for a certain group of foreigners while other groups of foreigners are generally respected much more than any local will be. In Singapore racism is not directed towards ALL foreigners to the same extent, and for example, slurs like "Bangla" do not refer to just any foreigner. And that would qualify ONLY myself but not most of you for the slur.

I wonder if you can see what the differences and the similarities are between singapore and japan, in this respect.



For the second part of your post, I don't think I need to make a comment as that's just YOUR opinions.


k1w1 wrote:Ri-i-ght. So I'll listen to your racist drivel and crap slung about my country and then you just throw what I say out the window as it's just my opinion. Good one.


My RACIST drivel? Crap slung towards your country? Can you show me what led you to make such statements? I'll gladly take them back. Just show me my "RACIST drivel".



This is one little island I will be happy to call home for a wee while yet.
Even if we were to ignore my comments as "foolish", wouldn't your own assertion above, that you won't like to stay in singapore for an extended period of time, tell us about how desirable, how great it is as a place to stay in?


I don't know how long I will stay here for, but if it makes you feel any better I don't have the high-life of some people here. I am the maid in our house and for kicks in the weekend I work (for money - not for love). As someone just getting started in life, I have figured that this is how things will work - just as anyone who has gotten further ahead than their parents did (without winning the lottery or inheriting a truckload of cash), that this will come through the sweat of my brow. Oh, and keeping my mouth shut and my head down at the right time. A lesson you have yet to learn, I see. Yeah, it's hard and we pay the price (very little family time and I don't remember the last time I went out with my husband ALONE, and our house is a pigsty all the time) but I don't want to work as a secretary or in a factory. This is where most of my family sit in life: working class people you might say. And I'm proud of them: I have their values and their work ethic. I now have huge debt to pay back for the education that I wanted but they could not afford. But why complain? We have choices to make every day. I made mine, and I think that compared to how my life could have been, I'm doing awesomely for 26. It was a massive risk for us coming here, but it was a bigger risk for us to stay where we were and never try. That's what I tell myself whenever I get resentful of other people having a life I don't have: I could be so much worse off.

Here's a little story for you: there is a maid in our condo (I talk to maids as they are often around during the day and they're the ones hanging around the pre-school at the same time as me - and I don't think they are any better or worse than me. At the end of the day, everyone's shit smells.) There's this one woman who is fom Sri Lanka and she has been living here for about five years, since her husband died and she was left with her two kids. She took a risk, she left her kids with her sister and brother and she came out here. She is always smiling because she feels lucky. I nearly cried right in front of her when she told me this, as I thought she was probably the most unlucky woman on earth. So when things get rough for me, I think about her and I see my kids everyday and I am happily married and while I am exhausted and struggling, I feel like the richest woman in the world.


as much as I would like to sympathize with your misfortunes and your travails, I don't see how that quite fits into this discussion here. But I sympathize with you and wish you best of luck, whether you're having a high-life or not does not enter the equation for me.

SO I'm just wondering now, what things might be like for me in Bangladesh? You see, I'm a young white woman and I'm just wondering if people will assume that I have stacks of money that I was born into, or that I'm someone's wife and have an easy life that I have done nothing to get, or that maybe I'm just some do-gooder Christian there to get my quota of brownie points by chatting with the natives about my idea of heaven. You see, the same assumptions that you are furious about people making of you work both ways.


To begin with, I'd say that's a little racist. I never said I represent ALL Bangladeshis' behaviours, actions, sentiments or mindsets, nor do most Bangladeshis exactly represent mine. I'd rather be seen as an individual judged on my merits and demerits rather than by some generalized notions of a whole 140 million individuals in my native country.

Your assumption that the "same assumptions.....work both ways" makes me furious. May I ask what "assumptions" you have seen ME have about Singaporeans (or foreigners) that can be equated with what I accuse ALL singaporeans (and most nonwhite foreigners IN singapore) of having?

You did assume a whole lot about what life will be like for you as a christian, fair skinned/of-european-descent woman in Bangladesh. Btw I'll not defend Bangladesh if you say that you have been discriminated against based on your "race" over there, nor will I bash it for not being nondiscriminatory. But PLZ quote from your OWN experiences; don't assume what life will be like IF you were to be there....over there in Bangladesh.


I strongly doubt, though, if different foreigners will be treated differently in Bangladesh but that's just what I feel. If you have concrete proof for any of your claims, I'll take back my words. Gladly.



I know most of this post was off-topic, but I am just trying to point out that you are guilty of the same thing that you are slagging everyone else off for.


May I ask how exactly am I guilty of different degrees of racism, that I accuse many others (but not ALL others) of perpetrating?


It just seems you're generalizing because you don't have a strong enough response to my accusations (btw, not levelled against you) that ALL singaporeans (and malaysians, indonesians, koreans, etc etc IN singapore) treated me like a stray dog as soon as they found out my nationality, religion, language etc etc etc.


But I may very well be mistaken. Maybe you DO have a reason to believe I have stereotyped the very people I have accused or something along that line. Would you like to show me how I have done that?

If you're unable to prove that I have been racist against the very persons I accuse of being racist, should I assume yours was merely drivel (rather than RACIST drivel)?

I suppose not.

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Postby bangladeshi_wonder » Fri, 04 Nov 2005 1:53 pm

sapphire wrote:Isn't 'Bangla' a language? Now its a racial slur as well? :o


yes, in singapore and malaysia, it is.

I'm a little surprised you haven't come across this term during your stay in singapore, it's widely used (starting from taxi drivers to management level professionals).

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Postby bangladeshi_wonder » Fri, 04 Nov 2005 1:55 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:
sapphire wrote:Isn't 'Bangla' a language? Now its a racial slur as well? :o

i thought bangla was just a short form for bangladeshi. no racial slur at all. there are two banglas who clean my estate and when i walk my dog everyday they wave happily and say hello and i wave happily back and say hello. just ordinary people doing our daily chores, and i appreciate their friendliness. they don't seem to resent me or think me racist just cos they're bangla. it's nice to know that some of them have a positive attitude to living and working in singapore.



just goes on to show how knowledgable and unassuming the average singaporean is, if I may add!

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Postby bangladeshi_wonder » Fri, 04 Nov 2005 1:58 pm

Vaucluse wrote:
I love dealing with you :kiss:


I don't want you to kiss me and I doubt if you love dealing with me as most of your replies have shown.

It's obvious because I called you a shit-stirrer that you make this untrue statement. But I only called you that AFTER you said you were SURE about something I would do and which I didn't end up doing.


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